ranjit If you're good at visualization, keep trying to visualize you're in front of an audience when practicing.

I always felt that if I could regularly and repeatedly experience playing through the shakes, I would learn to not be bothered by it a lot more quickly. But I have never been able to recreate the true "shakes" during practicing or in any non-performance situation. Still, I agree, visualizing is really helpful. I also try to remember the shakes and what they feel like so I won't be surprised when they occur.

I've also thought of practicing performing with a "cough track" playing, or with pencil sounds on paper (this really gets on my nerves when my teacher writes while I'm playing and I can hear it constantly, like how the pencil starts to sound as soon as you mess up something tiny...)

I can totally related! I am pretty sure my hearing sensitivity jumps up when I'm practicing, and the littlest noise is amplified in my brain!

      Not the piano, but at age 23, when I first worked as a professional (principal) cellist in an opera, I was extremely nervous when I had to play a solo. Things didn't necessarily go well, and at those times I felt I didn't deserve the job. Over the years, the situation gradually improved to the point where, when I had to play the extremely difficult solo in the opera Tosca (almost nothing is happening, the stage is dark and static, no singing, and there is just a low murmuring of strings underneath - in other words, completely exposed), I managed without difficulty.
      It was a long and sometimes uneven road to that point, though.
      I remember speaking with another principal cellist (of the symphony orchestra in the same city), and he said that musicians who never have never had to play those kinds of solos really have no idea what it feels like, and that there is no substitute for just putting yourself in that position, well prepared, and hope for the best.
      I think there's a lot of similarity between that and performing a solo on the piano with the exception that at least as a solo performer, no one else in the ensemble/company is relying on you!
      So that's something positive.

        ShiroKuro But I have never been able to recreate the true "shakes" during practicing or in any non-performance situation.

        My heart starts pounding loud enough that it scares me sometimes. I haven't been able to replicate that. I have heard of one suggestion to run a few miles and then sit down at the piano and perform to try to mimic that feeling.

            twocats I don't think think it was nerves from the crowd, just being in a totally different setting.

            Yes!

            Last summer at the Tonebase piano camp, I tried playing a couple of pieces in the recital. It was the first time I'd played for more than 3 people in 60+ years.

            I had one rather egregious memory slip, out of which I eventually extracted myself. But the whole situation reminded me so much of what Josef Hofmann had to say about the reliability of memory.
            https://www.beachbunnysoftware.com/music/JosefHofmann-DifferentPlaces.pdf

            Make a joyful noise...
            Jane - expert on nothing with opinions on everything.

                ranjit I have heard of one suggestion to run a few miles and then sit down at the piano and perform to try to mimic that feeling.

                Hmmm maybe I’ll try that. We have a treadmill. And an exercise bike…

                  Jane But the whole situation reminded me so much of what Josef Hofmann had to say about the reliability of memory.

                  Someone suggested to me that I have my husband try to annoy me and distract me! While I don't think that would go well for our relationship, I think maybe I should shake things up, like play a loud and irritating TV show at the same time or something. It's interesting that Hofmann said that we memorize our surroundings, too. (We are in fact just like dogs!)

                  ranjit I've also thought of practicing performing with a "cough track" playing, or with pencil sounds on paper

                  It sounds like a variety of distractions could be beneficial!

                  pseudonym58 there is no substitute for just putting yourself in that position, well prepared, and hope for the best.
                  I think there's a lot of similarity between that and performing a solo on the piano with the exception that at least as a solo performer, no one else in the ensemble/company is relying on you!
                  So that's something positive.

                  It's good that you finally did find it easier! It must be terrifying to be paid to play and to be so stressed.

                  Every time someone asks if I'm a pro I laugh and say thankfully not, because the stress would probably kill me! In chamber music I don't want to let my ensemble down but we're all just amateurs. In the worst case if I bomb a solo piano thing the only impact is to my ego 😉

                        I have actually practised with the radio on, but I could too easily ignore its chattering...

                        ranjit I have heard of one suggestion to run a few miles and then sit down at the piano and perform to try to mimic that feeling.

                        It is interesting, because you'll play with a pounding heart. However, what if you mess up badly in that situation? Would it make matters worse?

                        *
                        ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                            twocats This sounds like meditation! My husband keeps saying that it would be good for me.

                            Oh, I always said I can't meditate, but maybe I'm doing it already? 😄

                                Josephine Oh, I always said I can't meditate, but maybe I'm doing it already? 😄

                                It at least sounds like a form of meditation, especially if it eases your anxiety! I do think you're doing it already 🙂

                                  Animisha It is interesting, because you'll play with a pounding heart. However, what if you mess up badly in that situation? Would it make matters worse?

                                  I don’t think so. The idea is to experience playing despite the physical reactions.

                                  In my experience, when I’ve had a performance that hasn’t gone well due to nerves and shaking hands, and then had another performance soon after, the second one always goes better. This happened to me last November, when I played in the (mostly kids) recital held by my piano school, and then two weeks later I played at the concert at the retirement center.

                                  These two performances where the first time I’d played in a truly public recital since before the pandemic. And even though I’ve played publicly a lot, I somehow don’t retain the feeling of shaky hands very long, so the first recital, I just couldn’t get control of my shaky hands. For the second one, I think I was just less surprised by the feeling.

                                  So back to your question, @Animisha , I would think that the thing to do would be to do the “pounding heart” practice more than once, not in the same practice session, but a few times over the course of a week. Then if it goes badly the first time, you have a few more chances with it.

                                      ShiroKuro I have a cold, but the moment it is over and I am crossing away on my cross trainer again, I'll play the piano immediately after. 😊

                                      *
                                      ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                          twocats Today I went to a super casual playing event at someone's home, and on the drive over I imagined myself walking up onto a big stage and I got pretty bad anxiety just from the imagery! And then when I played my piece (not a difficult one) I was so thrown off by the bright lights and the unfamiliar piano that I played a whole bunch of wrong notes. I don't think think it was nerves from the crowd, just being in a totally different setting.

                                          I remember playing at my grandmother's 108th birthday party at the assisted living facility where she lived. I found the very loud air conditioning extremely distracting. Then at one of the most difficult passages I had practiced endlessly, more than the rest of that piece combined, one of the residents yelled "How was the meatloaf tonight Sam?"

                                              pianoloverus Then at one of the most difficult passages I had practiced endlessly, more than the rest of that piece combined, one of the residents yelled "How was the meatloaf tonight Sam?"

                                              You didn't finish the story! Did you bomb it?

                                              Also, wow, 108 years old!!

                                                  twocats I didn't bomb it but it wasn't ideal either. Then there was another time when I said "Now I'll play I'm in the mood for love" and some old guy in the back yelled out "You bet we are".

                                                    Hahahaha! That almost sounds like something out of a Marx movie... you know, capt. Spaulding: "Signor Ravelli's first selection will be 'Somewhere My Love Lies Sleeping' with a male chorus."

                                                    ShiroKuro I would think that the thing to do would be to do the “pounding heart” practice more than once, not in the same practice session, but a few times over the course of a week. Then if it goes badly the first time, you have a few more chances with it.

                                                    I did it! I could only "cross" for seven minutes because I am not quite recovered from my cold, but I played a piece with pounding heart. Actually, the heart was not a problem at all, I wasn't bothered by it at all, and I breathed freely. But my fingers were shaking and I had a bad memory lapse - just suddenly, no idea what comes next. I'll check that memory lapse later today, to work at that spot.
                                                    Maybe next time I should combine the pounding heart from the workout with holding my breath for an even more realistic imitation of mental and physical stress!

                                                    *
                                                    ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                                      @Animisha ok, wow! I definitely need to try this then, because those shaky hands is exactly what happens when I have my worst performance anxiety experience. So practicing like that would probably really help me.

                                                      BTW what is “cross”? Something like cross training?

                                                      I’m thinking what I’ll do is get the piano all set, with my sheet music out etc., then go down to the basement, get on the exercise bike and pedal like crazy to get out of breath, then run back upstairs and start playing as quickly as possible…. That should do it, right😁

                                                        ShiroKuro BTW what is “cross”? Something like cross training?

                                                        Animisha I have a cold, but the moment it is over and I am crossing away on my cross trainer again

                                                        I am sorry, I should have been more clear!

                                                        ShiroKuro I’m thinking what I’ll do is get the piano all set, with my sheet music out etc., then go down to the basement, get on the exercise bike and pedal like crazy to get out of breath, then run back upstairs and start playing as quickly as possible…. That should do it, right😁

                                                        Yes, that is basically how I did it! Take care though that you don't stumble on the stairs. The panting, pounding heart and shaking fingers take some time to calm down, so there is no need to stress.

                                                        *
                                                        ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                                                After joining a Piano Commons and voicing my concerns that nerves may shorten my lifespan, my teacher explained that playing a piece isn't about me, it all about the music. Once I am comfortable with all the aspects of the piece, I practice incessantly for 2 or 3 weeks. No talking during the performance, ie "Ooops" "Aargh" or favorite cuss word, always get the last chord right, smile when you stand up regardless and remember - its about the music.

                                                                Works for me.

                                                                Animisha Take care though that you don't stumble on the stairs.

                                                                Always good advice!