iternabe The reason I worry about committing wrong notes into subconscious memory is exactly because I only read them closely during the very early part of learning a piece. Pretty soon after there become a point where the fingers retained enough muscle memory (not by intention) that my brain no longer fully register and scrutinize those notes on the sheet even when my eyes are alway looking at them.

This is exactly what I also do! And that is also a reason why I want to get external feedback on the correctness of my playing, so I don't learn the wrong notes and the wrong sounds!

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    MRC When things are flying by too fast, I fake what's happening in the middle.

    That is probably a very good skill, esp. for sightreading truly new music!

    When reading a new piece, I have a hard time leaving out notes or, for example, an inner voice. If I'm learning something and decide not to play one chord note (say because it's beyond my reach) that's one thing, but I usually can't make that decision in the middle of prima vista sightreading.

      BartK disengage the auto pilot.

      This is very important!! And something I tried to do in the weeks leading up to the concert I played in last week, because, as you say, muscle memory is very unreliable. But auto pilot is very... insistent. It's like the brain wants to go into auto pilot, that's the default mode.

        My advice, which is worth what you paid for it!, is to avoid Synthesia - it is teaching the wrong things. Might as well light up the keys you need to press on the keyboard. The fact that it tells you when you make a mistake is not helping you - you need to develop the skill to hear when you have made a mistake yourself. And the only way to do that is to make mistakes and correct them yourself. Practice reading music 15 minutes a day, every day, and your skills will improve.

          I personally don't think the way Animisha is using Synethesia is harmful at all, and in fact I think the way she's using it sounds helpful. After all, one of the things teachers do for us is catch mistakes that we would otherwise be unaware of. And that's what it's doing.

            Sam you need to develop the skill to hear when you have made a mistake yourself.

            Sam, I am learning a new piece, and I am not familiar with its sounds. If I would play the alto voice as E in both measures, how could I hear it? This is an honest question, because I don't know, and I certainly don't hear it.

            PS The piece is in A major.

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                rsl12 Thank you! 😊

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                  Animisha If I would play the alto voice as E in both measures, how could I hear it?

                  The way you hear is by learning to hear it, and teaching yourself to hear it. Find spots you're likely to make mistakes, isolate the note, listen to it alone, then listen to it with the other notes in the chord, then listen to it in the context of the passage.

                  All the while you're doing this, re-playing each time, you will also be training your ear and your fingers (muscle memory).

                  Another think you can do is play the mistake, and then play the correct notes, and really pay attention to how they sound.

                  /notSam 😅

                      BTW @Animisha I feel like you are selling yourself short, assuming that you need to rely on Synthesia to avoid learning wrong notes. But I don't think that is the case.

                      I tend to agree with @Sam that you're better off not relying on Synthesia, but I get where @rsl12 is coming from as well. If someone is going to use Synthesia, then the way you're using it is much better than the way many other people do.

                      ShiroKuro The way you hear is by learning to hear it, and teaching yourself to hear it. Find spots you're likely to make mistakes, isolate the note, listen to it alone, then listen to it with the other notes in the chord, then listen to it in the context of the passage.

                      Ear training, then? Back to @Sam 's 15 minutes a day and just keep at it?

                          iternabe Ear training

                          That's a good question.... I wouldn't call what I'm suggesting ear training....

                          @Animisha said that if it's music she knows, it's not an issue (Animisha, please correct me if I'm wrong), but this is music where she doesn't know the original, and she's worried about wrong notes where there's a small change in a chord or passage that repeats. So the first time, one of the notes is an E but another time, it's a C# (for example).

                          It's hard to catch because it doesn't sound "wrong" the way something would if it was in the key of G major but you played the F nature (for example).

                          So here, the training required is more about score-reading than ear training... as I'm envisioning it. But maybe that's not the most helpful way?

                              ShiroKuro I was thinking along the line that ear training would help one distinguish a 7th from a 6th?

                                  ShiroKuro The way you hear is by learning to hear it, and teaching yourself to hear it.

                                  Interesting thought (and topic). This reminds me of something that happened to me recently. I had practiced the recital piece (Classy Rag) and it sounded good to my ears. Very funky. Then I had a piano friend (you know who you are) listen to it shortly before we went live, because it just so happened they wanted to learn this piece too.

                                  Of course they are a much better sight reader than I am, so not even five minutes later they told me that I played the second bar of the intro wrong. Sheet music:

                                  But instead, I did this:

                                  Now if they hadn't pointed that out to me, I would have played incorrect notes. I challenge anyone who doesn't know the piece well to notice it without the written music 😁

                                  Edit: I rerecorded it and the final version is correct, as far as I can tell 🙂

                                  As usual I am exaggerating. It will be fine. Whatever I'm playing - I am just trying not to massacre it completely. A bit of massacre is fine 🙂

                                      iternabe I was thinking along the line that ear training would help one distinguish a 7th from a 6th?

                                      Well, yes, ear training can help us distinguish one type of chord or interval from another. But in the context of playing a piece, esp one that you don't know, if both the 6th and the 7th sound ok (say because in one part of the music it's a 6th and in another part it's a 7th), then it's going to be very hard to notice that you're not playing the right one at the right time.

                                      Ultimately, I think we're talking about the same thing but from a slightly different angle.

                                          I’ve never tried Synthesia. I understand it’s like Guitar Hero for piano. I can see it could be helpful at catching mistakes. If you are concerned about becoming overly reliant on Synthesia I suggest watching to see if it’s catching fewer mistakes as time goes on. Eventually you may not need it anymore.

                                          I’ve been sight reading daily for over a year now and I find myself detecting wrong notes because the note I played is not what I’m expecting to hear, even if it fits in harmonically. I don’t have perfect pitch and I don’t feel like my relative pitch is really strong but somehow just by doing tons of sight reading my ear is getting better. I suspect this is a natural side effect of lots of sight reading.

                                            Sophia Now if they hadn't pointed that out to me, I would have played incorrect notes. I challenge anyone who doesn't know the piece well to notice it without the written music 😁

                                            Well, diminished 7ths are not really tonal in the sense that the chord is completely symetric and doesn't give a clue about the tonal center. It's one reason composers use it to modulate. So, unless you have perfect pitch you can't distinguish between different diminished 7ths by ear without context.

                                            You played the second one a whole tone higher but I had to look at your hands to see it.

                                            Anyway, IMO the notation is really bad. It's the same diminished 7th chord but inverted one note lower but for some reason they decided to write it in flats to make it look different.

                                              ShiroKuro But in the context of playing a piece, esp one that you don't know, if both the 6th and the 7th sound ok (say because in one part of the music it's a 6th and in another part it's a 7th), then it's going to be very hard to notice that you're not playing the right one at the right time.

                                              This is it.
                                              Once I am familiar with the music, I can hear it.

                                              And my fear has always been that I learn it incorrectly from the start, and as Sophia says, it sounds good to my ears, but it is not. Actually, this situation has also happened more than once, ever since I started to play a little bit more complex music. As a beginner, I heard all mistakes.

                                              So I am very happy with Synthesia, and more relaxed, when learning new pieces with strange sounds. ☺️

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                                                    rogerch I’ve been sight reading daily for over a year now and I find myself detecting wrong notes because the note I played is not what I’m expecting to hear, even if it fits in harmonically

                                                    Are you sightreading pieces that are familiar to you? I don’t mean, scores you’ve seen, but say pieces you generally know of as a listener?

                                                    I’m pretty sure that with music I don’t know well, if I’m reading a new score, my ability to detect wrong notes is pretty low if the note fits harmonically. I have always felt my ear is my weakest skill. (And I always felt that’s why I became so good at reading, because I cannot play by ear)

                                                        Animisha and more relaxed

                                                        This is very important.

                                                        Although my personal feeling is, “who cares about learning wrong notes, I’ll correct them over time,” that’s my approach and not everyone feels that way. If using Synthesia helps you feel more relaxed, that helps your practice in all kinds of ways.

                                                          ShiroKuro rogerch I’ve been sight reading daily for over a year now and I find myself detecting wrong notes because the note I played is not what I’m expecting to hear, even if it fits in harmonically

                                                          Are you sightreading pieces that are familiar to you? I don’t mean, scores you’ve seen, but say pieces you generally know of as a listener?

                                                          Most of what I sightread is unfamiliar and I still hear wrong notes. Sometimes I read the note correctly but play a different note. I look at my hand and it’s not where I thought it was! There are so many things that can go wrong but it’s fun to improve 🙂