JB_PT I have an acoustic and it's on caster cups. My pedals are 3 inches from the floor.

I have my digital cabinet on shock absorvers (one inch higher) to dampen impact sound, so the people living the floor under me won't hear anymore my playing noise. This little extra inch was already very uncomfortable for me to pedal. I solved it by attaching a door-mat to a wooden board (60x40cm) under the pedals to have my feet at pedal level again. This works quite well.

And this brings me to another thing I was thinking for quite a while: About height of the keyboard of acoustics and digital cabinets. It seems there is a standard height, isn't it? And this standard was established a long time ago when people where smaller on average. For big people nowadays, the keyboard height could be too low from an ergonomic perspective. Ok, with casters the entire piano can be lifted completely, but then the pedals are lifted off the ground, too. And this makes it uncomfortable to play. AFAIK some companies like Bösendorfer offers modification kits to extend the length of the lyra (don't know the english word for the housing for the rods to the pedals). And indeed I can imagine for a grand piano, this work very well. But what about uprights? Is there a way to extend the keyboard-pedal distance at all?

      WieWaldi But what about uprights? Is there a way to extend the keyboard-pedal distance at all?

      Not sure - everything is enclosed in the cabinet so it doesn’t seem like it would be practical. I searched this topic when I was first dealing with it and it seemed like the standard solution was a platform similar to mine. I wish this was something the piano store had discussed with me prior to delivery, perhaps even offering solutions. It was quite a shock at first…I could not use the pedals at all because it was so uncomfortable.

        Side note but still on the topic of pedaling 😃 The next piece in my book introduces something new: finger pedaling. I got all nervous... I had images like WieWaldi pedaling with his ear:

        But then I watched Gale explain it, and it's not quite as scary as all that 😃 Learn something every day!

          Sophia now it makes perfectly sense: we can use two feet and one ear. And the piano has three pedals. 🤟
          Can you share Gales video about "finger pedaling"? I just want to see how he bends down.
          What is finger pedaling? The only idea I can imagine is to hold down a key longer by changing the fingering. For example the ring finger holds a key, then the thumb is joining and the hand is free to reach something far away

              WieWaldi What is finger pedaling?

              Finger pedaling just means that you hold down some notes (usually the bass) with your fingers rather than sustain them with the pedal. It doesn't necessarily require finger switching.

                  WieWaldi Here is a timely video from Grahm Fitch that showed finger pedaling, among other things:

                    BartK Isn't this the most normal thing, all we beginner pianists do before we reach out for the pedal?
                    Ok - someone for sure invented a name for it to make it feel as complicated as hell.

                        WieWaldi BartK Isn't this the most normal thing, all we beginner pianists do before we reach out for the pedal?

                        But finger pedaling doesn't mean that you simply play notes with your fingers. It means specifically that you hold them longer as if they were being sustained by the pedal but without using the pedal. For example, if you have an Alberti bass pattern that goes C-G-E-G you would hold down the C for the whole beat while playing G-E-G. Another example is playing an arpeggio while holding down all the previous notes of the arpeggio. This way you sustain the notes while avoiding muddiness. It is useful sometimes.

                          This is the notation my book uses:

                          The first note in bass staff is a full note, meaning to hold it down the entire bar length, anyway. This is a good example why the pedal marking is superfluous.

                          I think the pedal is still needed for the right hand, so that those notes sound nice too. I haven't started that piece yet though 😄

                          What I like about following all three method books: they don't cover everything at once. In the first two books they didn't cover much theory at all, because they know we beginners just like to touch the piano 👇🏽 And our brains are not ready yet for super complicated techniques, we struggle enough just reading the score, finding the notes and making our fingers obey.

                          But now the third Alfred book is starting to apply the thumbscrews... circle of fifths, more chords, more scales, diminished 7th chords and soon arpeggios. Another buzz word everyone keeps telling us they are so important... but I was patient and waited for Alfred to introduce all those things. That gives me time to also do stuff I like, such as the blues course 😃

                          Actually I am really loving this third book though. Towards the end it will allow us to play some actual music, such as original versions of the first movement of Moonlight Sonata and Fur Elise. But I am starting to think that my first love might become lighter music such as blues and easy listening... it's too early to tell still.

                          Either way, we need to continue to learn - and this forum is really helpful in providing both tips and motivation 🙂

                            Sophia diminished 7th chords

                            Fuuu**** - Christian has only introduced a half-dimished one so far. (D minor seven flat five). I start to feel like I am lagging behind.

                            Sophia circle of fifths

                            Look up where your 12-bar blues chords are inside this circle. And if he starts more advanced chord progressions, look up again where they are located. This tells quite you something about what sounds good or bad.

                                I have another question about pedal timing. It's about "play the notes first, then push down the pedal". The timing of pedal down, does it have to be immediately after the notes? Would pedal down leisurely be a problem? For example, in measure 1, 6, and 8, what could be the problem, if any, if I push the pedal down on the 2nd beat?

                                Of course, for measure 4, the pedal needs to be down before the second 8th note - I can see the logic behind that.

                                  On a digital piano this isn't always clear but on an accoustic there is a big difference in sound because of the resonance of all the open strings when you lift the pedal. The piece tempo direction is "Majestically", which means you're trying to get this big resonant sound with all the strings open. Nothing bad is going to happen if you don't press the pedal immediately but it's not going to sound as majestic. On a good piano you should be able to hear the difference.

                                    Pallas The pedaling mark is telling you where the composer wants which kind of resonance from the instrument.

                                    Well, the composer in this case is Handel, who knew nothing about the piano pedal because it wasn't invented yet. 😉 The pedal marks are an editorial addition.

                                    Usually, pedal marks are a suggestion anyway, even when the composer wrote them.

                                    /end nitpicking mode

                                      BartK I did not show the second page of the score - it is essentially the same as page 1 but forte in dynamics. Pedal does make the sound quite more majestic in forte.

                                      What confuses me a bit is the opening dynamics is piano. The pedal effect there seems to me more for legato than for resonance when playing soft? However I do feel in measure 4 the pedal makes the bass register quite a bit more sonorous even played soft.

                                      One more question, if the goal is to make the sound more majestic, would pedal down before the opening note in measure one even better?

                                      BTW although I am on a digital piano, I am using Pianoteq which models the pedal effect quite realistically.

                                          I suppose one reason that make me ask this latest question is some suggestion I got for pedaling when changing chords - that between chords, the pedal needs to remain up for enough time so that the previous chord complete dies out before the pedal can go down again. Of course there is no changing pedaled chords here. I was just wondering if not rushing the pedal down is a good thing to think about.

                                          iternabe have another question about pedal timing. It's about "play the notes first, then push down the pedal". The timing of pedal down, does it have to be immediately after the notes? Would pedal down leisurely be a problem?

                                          No, it would not be a problem, and I would even encourage it. Get used to controlling the pedal smoothly, with sensitivity. Here's what I wrote earlier in this thread:

                                          MRC One really important thing: once you have lifted the pedal, you do not need to depress it again immediately. Many pianists get into the habit of making a very fast up-down movement at each harmony change. There are two drawbacks to doing this:

                                          • If you depress the pedal again too soon, you may not give the dampers the time to completely stop the vibrations of the strings. This muddies the sound.
                                          • Depressing the pedal very fast can be noisy. in the worst cases, you can hear the pianist stamp on the pedal.

                                          At a particular place, try depressing the pedal sooner or later, faster or slower. What difference does it make? Listen, always listen: let your ears guide your pedalling!

                                          And do try the Handel piece you posted with no pedal at all. How does it sound? Why did the editor add the pedal at those specific moments?

                                              iternabe One more question, if the goal is to make the sound more majestic, would pedal down before the opening note in measure one even better?

                                              Yes, it's quite common to have the pedal down before playing the first note. Moreso in romantic music than things like this but you can experiment.

                                              I agree with MRC - experiment, listen very carefully, and try to figure out what sounds good. This is excellent advice in general and will have a great impact on your progress. I think listening critically is one of the most important skills you can develop.

                                                Here's something interesting: Yeol Eum Son playing the same piece once with pedal and once without. Both beautifully done:

                                                I love it that she pedalled with bare feet, so you can appreciate the subtleties.