Josephine Yes, Roman numeral notation is absolutely used in classical music. It's often not taught to students because many students don't like theory.

  • TC3 likes this.

    Another yes to the Roman numeral system and classical music. Josephine, it's worth spending some time learning it. It's not difficult, in fact it's very logical and, after you learn it, easy to use. I think most of the method books teach it. I just checked my old Alfred Adult AIO Level 1 book, and they start teaching it there.

    • TC3 likes this.

    I got shot down before for suggesting this, but if it's up your alley, learn Roman numeral analysis. It's really not that hard, and puts a ton of things into perspective. It will also go a long way to help you learn to compose/improvise in the idiom.

      ranjit

      Thank you Ranjit and Stub. I don't think it's used in my method books, but I'm sure I can find some info about it on youtube.

        ranjit
        It's silly that you got shot down for suggesting that. It's one thing to say (for example) "well, I don't have time or I'm not interested." But it would clearly be a helpful addition to one's knowledge of chords and music theory in general.

        I should probably make it a point to do that...
        Ranjit, do you have a recommendation for a text or resource for it?

            ShiroKuro do you have a recommendation for a text or resource for it?

            I have the Mark Sarnecki "Harmony" series of books (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced) and it's pretty good but very dry. It's like a math textbook - some theory for 1-2 pages then a bunch of exercises based on that theory. I think you really need to go through exercises like that to really understand the theory. Just reading about it or watching a video is too little to truly become proficient and be able to use it on the fly.

            There is also this series on YouTube which is extremely well done but like I said you probably have to work on it a bit for it to sink in.

                Thanks for the recommendation, Bartk, I'll see if I can find that book.

                ShiroKuro

                ShiroKuro It's silly that you got shot down for suggesting that.

                Yes, their argument was that it was wasteful for beginners to learn that theory and that it served no practical purpose. I think it helped me when I was a beginner, because I finally understood what chords meant, how they could be substituted for one another, etc.

                      ranjit thanks for the link, I'll take a look!

                        I've seen circular wrist movements in random youtube videos. It is not in the method book I follow (Faber adults 1). I've recently got Hanon-Faber supplementary book because it has these circular movements in the beginning. But Faber puts the level of the book after the adult method 1&2. I've also heard that adult beginners tend to worry about technique and theory too much. So I guess I am worrying too much 🙂

                          hebele I've seen circular wrist movements in random youtube videos. It is not in the method book I follow (Faber adults 1). I've recently got Hanon-Faber supplementary book because it has these circular movements in the beginning. But Faber puts the level of the book after the adult method 1&2. I've also heard that adult beginners tend to worry about technique and theory too much. So I guess I am worrying too much 🙂

                          No! You want to be as precise with technique as possible. Method books are horrible at teaching technique. Follow the videos.

                              BartK I have the Mark Sarnecki "Harmony" series of books (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced) and it's pretty good but very dry. It's like a math textbook - some theory for 1-2 pages then a bunch of exercises based on that theory. I think you really need to go through exercises like that to really understand the theory. Just reading about it or watching a video is too little to truly become proficient and be able to use it on the fly.

                              I'd recommend a book as well and doing the exercises is very important. It's one thing to read through and say, oh, yeah, I get that, but another to have to actually do it or explain it. Plus writing stuff down (doing the exercises) helps you remember it. I used the Benwald and Saker books (Music in Theory & Practice) but oh, my are they dry. Something with an answer key would be helpful, as well.

                                ranjit I've also heard that adult beginners tend to worry about technique and theory too much.

                                It's this piece of advice that I think is highly misleading. I'm not so concerned about the theory part -- you can learn piano well without knowing much theory. But technique should be learned very carefully, so I disagree that adult beginners worry about technique too much.

                                IMO videos are way better at teaching technique than books. If you're learning kung fu, would you read about positions from a book which doesn't even have images, or would you watch an hour-long demonstration video on YouTube? I would say the same principle applies. (I recommend Denis Zhdanov btw.)

                                  Thanks for the YouTube videos by Seth Monaghan. He’s an excellent instructor. Started watching them last night. Much of it so far has been review. Figured Bass is new though.

                                  Kawai KG-1 5’5” baby grand
                                  Started piano lessons in my retirement, January 2018

                                  I’m definitely a beginner by the seven criteria discussed in the video. Very helpful information to have in terms of what skills are required to move to the next level. Thanks for sharing 👍

                                  4 days later

                                  Just watched the video.
                                  7 times NO, but I catched the 2nd note of playing the melody by ear 🥳
                                  So I am somewhere between bloody beginner and early beginner. 🤓

                                  First of all: this guy is selling himself as a teacher. Some of the things mentioned, I would categorise under advanced and not intermediate. E.g. all basic chord sequences in all keys in all inversions. But it's nice to check where one still has to work on.

                                  "I was never made to practice scales or arpeggios. What was needed to develop my abilities as a pianist was done exclusively through playing the pieces themselves" page 6, 'A Life in Music', Daniel Barenboim.

                                  Apparently Daniel is still a 'beginner'.

                                  Sydney Australia
                                  Retired part-time piano technician

                                    My takeaway is that one needs to strive to achieve more even development of a spectrum of skills as they progress. As someone who is self-learning I find this is especially a challenge as the temptation is high to skip the hard or unnatural part of the book lessons. Maybe that's one main benefit of having a teacher?