Josephine Is the Roman numeral chord notation also used when you learn only classical music?

I tend to think it is not used, at least in the many years I have been learning with four different 'classical' teachers. At least it has not played much of a part in my lessons. What has come up in the lessons is suggestions that changes of chord are recognised say in the left hand accompaniment. Is this the same or is it not the same as using Roman numeral notation?

Whilst writing this reply it occurs to me that there is a teacher Lona Kozik who runs the School of Music Theory in Devon UK that does use the Roman numeral system to analyse classical music. It is worth searching for Lona's website and registering because she produces some really interesting videos and sends out monthly emails which analyse different pieces of popular classical music.

    ShiroKuro I very much liked this video and the presenter but couldn't answer yes to all the questions or points being made. Would have the greatest difficulty satisfying the the very first point! This is a video to watch again and perhaps develop an action plan.

    Perhaps I have an excuse...I am not a musician but a scientist who likes music.

      I was most surprised/embarrassed when he started to talk about circular wrist movement because as far as I can recall this has never been talked about with any of my teachers. I can vividly recall being taught about keeping the wrist fully relaxed and I do play with wrist quite still. I have just played a piece with circular motion and I think it does improve the tone.

      6 days later

      Josephine Yes, Roman numeral notation is absolutely used in classical music. It's often not taught to students because many students don't like theory.

      • TC3 likes this.

        Another yes to the Roman numeral system and classical music. Josephine, it's worth spending some time learning it. It's not difficult, in fact it's very logical and, after you learn it, easy to use. I think most of the method books teach it. I just checked my old Alfred Adult AIO Level 1 book, and they start teaching it there.

        • TC3 likes this.

        I got shot down before for suggesting this, but if it's up your alley, learn Roman numeral analysis. It's really not that hard, and puts a ton of things into perspective. It will also go a long way to help you learn to compose/improvise in the idiom.

          ranjit

          Thank you Ranjit and Stub. I don't think it's used in my method books, but I'm sure I can find some info about it on youtube.

            ranjit
            It's silly that you got shot down for suggesting that. It's one thing to say (for example) "well, I don't have time or I'm not interested." But it would clearly be a helpful addition to one's knowledge of chords and music theory in general.

            I should probably make it a point to do that...
            Ranjit, do you have a recommendation for a text or resource for it?

                ShiroKuro do you have a recommendation for a text or resource for it?

                I have the Mark Sarnecki "Harmony" series of books (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced) and it's pretty good but very dry. It's like a math textbook - some theory for 1-2 pages then a bunch of exercises based on that theory. I think you really need to go through exercises like that to really understand the theory. Just reading about it or watching a video is too little to truly become proficient and be able to use it on the fly.

                There is also this series on YouTube which is extremely well done but like I said you probably have to work on it a bit for it to sink in.

                    Thanks for the recommendation, Bartk, I'll see if I can find that book.

                    ShiroKuro

                    ShiroKuro It's silly that you got shot down for suggesting that.

                    Yes, their argument was that it was wasteful for beginners to learn that theory and that it served no practical purpose. I think it helped me when I was a beginner, because I finally understood what chords meant, how they could be substituted for one another, etc.

                          ranjit thanks for the link, I'll take a look!

                            I've seen circular wrist movements in random youtube videos. It is not in the method book I follow (Faber adults 1). I've recently got Hanon-Faber supplementary book because it has these circular movements in the beginning. But Faber puts the level of the book after the adult method 1&2. I've also heard that adult beginners tend to worry about technique and theory too much. So I guess I am worrying too much 🙂

                              hebele I've seen circular wrist movements in random youtube videos. It is not in the method book I follow (Faber adults 1). I've recently got Hanon-Faber supplementary book because it has these circular movements in the beginning. But Faber puts the level of the book after the adult method 1&2. I've also heard that adult beginners tend to worry about technique and theory too much. So I guess I am worrying too much 🙂

                              No! You want to be as precise with technique as possible. Method books are horrible at teaching technique. Follow the videos.

                                  BartK I have the Mark Sarnecki "Harmony" series of books (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced) and it's pretty good but very dry. It's like a math textbook - some theory for 1-2 pages then a bunch of exercises based on that theory. I think you really need to go through exercises like that to really understand the theory. Just reading about it or watching a video is too little to truly become proficient and be able to use it on the fly.

                                  I'd recommend a book as well and doing the exercises is very important. It's one thing to read through and say, oh, yeah, I get that, but another to have to actually do it or explain it. Plus writing stuff down (doing the exercises) helps you remember it. I used the Benwald and Saker books (Music in Theory & Practice) but oh, my are they dry. Something with an answer key would be helpful, as well.

                                    ranjit I've also heard that adult beginners tend to worry about technique and theory too much.

                                    It's this piece of advice that I think is highly misleading. I'm not so concerned about the theory part -- you can learn piano well without knowing much theory. But technique should be learned very carefully, so I disagree that adult beginners worry about technique too much.

                                    IMO videos are way better at teaching technique than books. If you're learning kung fu, would you read about positions from a book which doesn't even have images, or would you watch an hour-long demonstration video on YouTube? I would say the same principle applies. (I recommend Denis Zhdanov btw.)

                                      Thanks for the YouTube videos by Seth Monaghan. He’s an excellent instructor. Started watching them last night. Much of it so far has been review. Figured Bass is new though.

                                      Kawai KG-1 5’5” baby grand
                                      Started piano lessons in my retirement, January 2018

                                      I’m definitely a beginner by the seven criteria discussed in the video. Very helpful information to have in terms of what skills are required to move to the next level. Thanks for sharing 👍

                                      4 days later

                                      Just watched the video.
                                      7 times NO, but I catched the 2nd note of playing the melody by ear 🥳
                                      So I am somewhere between bloody beginner and early beginner. 🤓