ShiroKuro BTW just writing this post makes me think I really need to be firm with myself and try to memorize the whole piece for Wishing, not just a few sections… Being a “reader” makes me so lazy… 😅

Looking at your markings I'm wondering if I should switch to letters instead of numbers, but then since I have over 26 I'll have to do AA, BB, etc at the end. Letters feel more "right" to me.

I definitely relate to the laziness! Yesterday when I was studying the score I actually found myself thinking "this is in F major, here it's a C chord so it's V (five-- relative chord)" and noticing that in a repeated section that Chopin has added an additional note to each chord. I would never have noticed this if I wasn't trying to memorize!

ShiroKuro I am sure it will. I just feel I'm too lazy right now to try to memorize a piece that I also have to more active learn the how of as well. 😅

In my opinion you should start with a piece you already know and memorize that. That way there's less risk of memorizing it wrong as well!

        ShiroKuro You would think they could fix this....

        Apparently it never fully worked and iOS also keeps changing so the developers haven't been able to figure out a fix. My understanding is that to save time they compress everything to one layer and then uncompress it, but then sometimes it doesn't uncompress 😱

            twocats Looking at your markings I'm wondering if I should switch to letters instead of numbers, but then since I have over 26 I'll have to do AA, BB, etc at the end. Letters feel more "right" to me.

            I go back and forth about this.... IMO the best way to do, which I don't always do, is this:
            Analyze the score to find sections that have the same theme or other commonalities, those would be labeled similarly. For example, A1, A2..... then if you need to break them up into smaller pieces, you could do A1-1, A1-2 etc.... This way you don't run out of the alphabet, and you see connections across the score.

            This takes more time on the front end, so the several pieces, I've just gone from the beginning and labeled A, B etc. so I do indeed sometimes get up to AA etc... This "feels" more efficient because I can start practicing right away, and then use those rehearsal marks for "drop in practice etc....

            just fyi!

                twocats My understanding is that to save time they compress everything to one layer and then uncompress it, but then sometimes it doesn't uncompress 😱

                😱😱😱😱

                  ShiroKuro Analyze the score to find sections that have the same theme or other commonalities, those would be labeled similarly. For example, A1, A2..... then if you need to break them up into smaller pieces, you could do A1-1, A1-2 etc.... This way you don't run out of the alphabet, and you see connections across the score.

                  Thanks, this is very helpful! I think I should "get it right" before I start to mentally associate the chunks with a label. I am currently thinking big sections are A, B, C, and inside them I can do A1, A2, etc for memorization phrases. Even if A and C have a similar theme (they're similar but not identical), I can remember that.

                  This has the bonus effect of if I decide to add or remove a chunk (which I did yesterday), it only affects the numbering for that section and I don't have to adjust for the whole piece!

                      twocats Thanks, this is very helpful! I think I should "get it right" before I start to mentally associate the chunks with a label. I am currently thinking big sections are A, B, C, and inside them I can do A1, A2, etc for memorization phrases.

                      I updated the sections and it was definitely the right decision, because I will now start associating each larger section with a letter. I'm up to M by the end 😳 I also added a bunch of smaller chunks for learning. I think the goal while memorizing is to do it one chunk at a time, but once it's solid my goal is to be able to erase all the subsections (K1, K2, etc) and be able to play each letter section (all of K) at will.

                      This is going to be lots of hard work but I also think there is a lot of payoff to going through this! If I succeed I don't think I will ever "lose" this work and it will be easy to recover even if I put it away for years.

                          twocats I updated the sections and it was definitely the right decision, because I will now start associating each larger section with a letter. I'm up to M by the end 😳

                          Now thinking I should change it to what SK suggested, this is too many sections to track. I should do A1, A2 for every time the same theme happens. I can use a different color pen to create the subsections for the smaller memorization chunks, because those are temporary.

                          I've been solving my "layer selection" issue by making sure I click on the page layer every time before I exit a page, since the memorization chunk layer is more of a "one and done" thing (if you do it right the first time, which I am not).

                              twocats Now thinking I should change it to what SK suggested, this is too many sections to track. I should do A1, A2 for every time the same theme happens. I can use a different color pen to create the subsections for the smaller memorization chunks, because those are temporary.

                              Done, and I like this so much more! I think this method is the winner. There's really only 3 distinct main sections and two of them are repeated but with variations, and I wanted to represent that in a way that made sense. So I called the main themes A/A1 and B/B1, etc (thought about calling it "Theme" and "Presto" but it felt too wordy, I can easily remember that A means the original theme and B means the Presto), and called the end Coda because that's what everyone calls it rather than to make up a letter name (even though it happens to be C). And instead of more letter names for the different transitions I called it "A1 bridge". I think these will stay in my memory far better than assigning numbers or letters.

                              I used a different color marker to break down the chunks for memorization. As I learn these I may erase what I currently have and merge them into bigger phrases. But visually and organizationally this makes so much more sense and should help it get locked into my brain.

                                  @ShiroKuro

                                  I just tried a small part of Wishing, to see if it would be different for me with this piece, and I memorize it hands together immediately. It feels best to do it that way because of the rhythm.

                                    twocats Now thinking I should change it to what SK suggested, this is too many sections to track. I should do A1, A2 for every time the same theme happens. I can use a different color pen to create the subsections for the smaller memorization chunks, because those are temporary.

                                    Yes, with longer pieces, I think you will want to settle on a system that is manageable... The first longer piece I memorized (this was like, more 20 years ago) I remember I made a story about it, and I labeled each section with descriptive words from the story. So for that piece, instead of rehearsal sections A, B, etc. I had little phrases like "the wind picks up" ... I don't remember now (isn't that ironic!)

                                    Actually I bet it's been 20 years since I've played it, I should dig it up and see how it goes trying to resurrect it.....

                                    ETA the reason I brought this up is because that piece was like maybe 7 pages, and I'm guessing your piece, @twocats is longer? Also, pages are less imprtant than the number of measures... I really need to go find the score...

                                        ShiroKuro The first longer piece I memorized (this was like, more 20 years ago)

                                        😳😳😳😳😳
                                        So I checked the ABF recital index. I submitted that to the recital in 2009... I'm pretty I learned it a few years before that... and my recital recording was my old digital piano... ahh memories.... speaking of memories, I will try to remember to dig up this score this weekend and see how it goes.
                                        If anyone is curious, it's While the Trees Sleep by David Nevue, here's me and my very digital-sounding digital:
                                        https://recitals.pianoworld.com/recital_files/Recital_16/51.%20ShiroKuro%20-%20While%20the%20Trees%20Sleep.mp3

                                        And thank you @Sam for the recital index, it's truly amazing!!!

                                          twocats Done, and I like this so much more! I think this method is the winner.

                                          Oh good!! (I'm reading slow here...) I'm glad you found a system that will work for you.

                                            ShiroKuro ETA the reason I brought this up is because that piece was like maybe 7 pages, and I'm guessing your piece, @twocats is longer?

                                            It's 10 pages! Actually doing this exercise has already been helpful because it forced me to figure out the exact structure of the piece 🙂

                                                Josephine to me, I think Wishing could go either way (memorize HS or HT)...

                                                The thing I don't think I could memorize HS is a piece where one voice or melody is distributed across the hands. Wishing is very straightforward in that regard, the melody is fully in the RH and the accompaniment is fully in the LH. They fit nicely together, so HT works work, but I think one could do the HS approach... And I do mean "one" because I'm not going to do it!! 😅

                                                    twocats It's 10 pages!

                                                    Yes, that's pretty long to just go A, B, C...

                                                    But figuring out the structure is exactly how I was benefiting from this approach yesterday... Ok, i'm gonna go practice before it gets too late here! 😃

                                                      ShiroKuro

                                                      Yes, you are right. I have to say I didn't check the entire piece. I was curious about it, if I can use a different approach, because I want to try to play the sort of music you often play, because I like it. This piece was stuck in my head because I watched your practice video. I'm listening all sorts of music to find a piece I want to play, but it's so difficult to choose. This topic made me realize that for some of that music I might need another way of memorizing, but wishing wasn't the best example for that indeed. 😄

                                                        You should definitely try Wishing. It’s very accessible in my opinion, and a “people pleasure” too which is always nice. We could start a thread about it 🙂

                                                          Josephine I think the nice thing about memorizing is that you can focus completely on listening to the tone of your playing when you are practicing.

                                                          You can also listen to the tone of your playing while reading the music. When practising over days, refining your music, the "reading" isn't the same as at first anyway. It's more like road signs along an already familiar street.

                                                          I memorize some passages especially if I want to pay attention to what my hands & arms/body are doing because the physical technical part of my playing is behind. What I find is that the written music also takes on additional dimensions. In both cases there is a synergy.

                                                              keystring It's more like road signs along an already familiar street.

                                                              So then it's more or less memorized right? 😄
                                                              I do read the melody of music sometimes while checking if I got the dynamics right, if I didn't forget anything. But most of the time I don't look at it.