pianoloverus

When I was talking about all things being equal I was saying that pianos like the ones you mentioned or any series of pianos from the same maker usually have the same "basic" design other than length and price.

That is not always true. Using the Kawai upright example that Brdwyguy mentioned, the K-500 adds higher spec features beyond just height, string length, and soundboard area relative to the K-300, such as a partial duplex scale and bass agraffes. The K-800 adds a full duplex scale, a full set of agraffes (excluding the top octave as is customary) and upgraded hammer felt. One should of course focus on the overall playability and sound, and not on specs, but these differ in ways that often are associated with different product lines.

Comparing a K-300 to a K-800 is more like comparing a Yamaha U1 to a YUS5 than like comparing a U1 to a U3.

      sweelinck
      Thank You sweelinck - an interesting video:

      and this one is also interesting:

          I don't think you should have any fears buying from Cunningham! @Rich-Galassini is very active on PW (don't know if he'll see this tag here) and from everything I've heard and seen over the years of posts I have no doubt that Cunningham will take care of you. If I was shopping on the East Coast I'd definitely consider buying from them.

          brdwyguy

          In the case of Kawai K series uprights, even the tonal style varies. I think that is less true of Kawai grands at least within the GX and SK series. The tonal style of Boston uprights also seemed more uniform, at least with the 126 and 132 models (much moreso than with the K-500 and K-800).

          Robert Estrin demonstrated the tonal consistency of a Baldwin/Hamilton studio upright and Baldwin 7' grand in this video:

          These pianos clearly have very different designs, but both were engineered to deliver Baldwin's tonal signature at the time.

          Short of confirmation from Kawai, I have no way to verify this, but it currently is my speculative belief that Kawai designs the K-500 and ST-1 to have a little heavier action and warmer tone than the K-300 or K-800 have so that they will require less voicing and regulation maintenance in heavy use institutional settings.

          The upshot of all of that is that pianos of different length have different scale designs. That the same woods, design and build methods are used may contribute to tonal consistency, but ultimately, I think if there is a consistency of tonal style across a product line, it is engineered in as a design goal.

            raagamuffin
            We tried uprights, though not that particular Kawai.

            If you can stretch your budget to consider a Kawai K-800 (some indeterminate number less than $18K, varying with negotiated price, say $17,500 for the sake of discussion, but could be less), it has the keystick length, fallboard style, music rack style, and sostenuto pedal found in a grand. Keysticks are longer than you will find in most small grands (closer to the key length of a 7' grand).

              sweelinck I know that,of course. That's why I used the word "basic" which IMO allows for higher spec features.

                Regarding uprights, I would audition Schimmel and Gotrian uprights. I felt they were better (action, sound, etc) than the lower tier grand piano offerings.

                I would also consider finding a reputable used piano seller (like Cunningham) and consider a -newer- used piano. There is a significant quality delta at your price point. E.g. used Yamaha CX vs a new Yamaha G.

                I found Larry Fine's "The Piano Book" very helpful when looking at pianos.

                After much debate, we purchased the Cunningham 5'. I didn't see a big difference between that and the 5'4. We replayed the Kawai GL20 and felt it was a bit brighter, so went back to it. My daughter didn't prefer an upright, due to staring into a black wood column (according to her), she'd rather stare at a blank wall 😉

                I'll update after delivery and debate with (in a friendly way , of course) @pianoloverus and @ShiroKuro if its aesthetic or not!
                I will say, pricing is very opaque in this industry, I think I may have overpaid (or paid exactly what I should have), its tough to tell.

                  raagamuffin, Cunningham's are top of the line beginner pianos, perfect to start out on and to eventually trade up if need be in the future.

                  Here is the page from Larry Fine's Piano Buyer Guide, in case you didn't see it:
                  https://www.pianobuyer.com/copy-of-template-43

                  Can't wait to see pictures and maybe even a video?
                  brdwyguy

                  raagamuffin wooo hoooo!!! Congratulations!!! I think you’ll be very happy with it!! I am super excited for you!!

                  When do you take delivery?

                    raagamuffin congratulations! I look forward to seeing the photos. It’s very exciting to get a new piano!

                      @raagamuffin Congratulations! And in terms of the price you paid, unless money is very tight, I wouldn't worry about a couple of thousand dollars; you will have the piano for years!

                      Thanks for all your wishes.
                      I received the piano and it looks quite nice. Initially I was a bit concerned, the piano was sounding disjointed, notes slightly sharper or flatter in relation to each other. This apparently was temperature driven, since a few hours later, after acclimating, it sounded quite creamy in the mids and bell like in the tops (I'll get the bottom keys) with good relationships between notes.
                      I wasn't expecting the sound to be so loud, that was a revelation. Interestingly its not so loud when one is sitting and playing it, it gets louder a few feet away.
                      I have read that Cunningham has its own unique features from its manufacturing company, Hailun pianos, but I wasn't able to discern any differences visually inspecting the strings, layout of the frame etc. in relation to online pics of a Hailun piano.

                      I have an issue with my C2-F2 keys, they have a weird (out of tune) ringing after press almost like a ghostly sustain. I assume it has to do with the dampener not stopping fully onto the strings after a key press. Also, there are 2 keys that sound a bit different, almost muted. Cunningham will be sending a piano tech to take a look.

                      Overall, very impressed with a live breathing (heavy) wooden machine. Hopefully the small issues can be addressed easily and then on to playing 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star'😀

                        raagamuffin Cunningham will be sending a piano tech to take a look.

                        You bought your piano new, right? It's totally normal for a new piano to have a sort of "settling in" period. Actually, anytime a piano is moved, whether it's new or used, it needs to adjust to the new climate and so on. Which is of course what you experienced with the temperature thing. Anyway, I'm sure the techs will help your piano get settled in and get rid of that ghostly sustain.

                        May you have many years of happy playing! 🙂

                          raagamuffin congratulations on getting the piano! Just to reiterate ShiroKuro;a point, it’s very normal for pianos to have a period of adjustment when they move between locations. This is also a tricky time of year with weather swings — I wouldn’t be shocked if the tuning goes out as the weather fluctuates. This is a real difference between acoustic pianos and digital pianos — they will go out of tune. Also, since it is a new piano, don’t be shocked if it takes a couple years for the tuning to stabilize (you likely will want to tune it 3-4 times a year the first couple of years).