raagamuffin She quite liked the Cunningham (so did I) action and it's sound. We could discern differences in sound quality between 5 and 5'10 (which she wanted but too big for our space). Couldn't hear any variation between 5 and 5'4.

Ahh, ok this changes things. I have not played a Cunningham myself, but they are quite well regarded and a friend of mine has one. I'll message her and ask her the size.

I suspect the diff between 5' and 5'4" is indeed going to be very minimal. But yes, going from 5' to 5'10" is a going to be a big difference. Since that piano is too big for you, don't play it anymore 😅 I'm only half joking. Early in my own piano shopping, I played anything and everything, include pianos that were too big or way over my budget. It was instructional early on but I eventually started only playing things that I could actually afford or that would fit.

Back to your pianos.... I never met an Essex I liked (sorry!) and I played a fair amount while shopping. The Kawai GL pianos would be fine, I assume, but if you both liked the Cunningham, then I think you should give that one serious consideration.

I'll post again later, gonna go message my friend! 🙂

    One more thing, doesn't the Cunningham use a wide tail design? If so, that would put it above the Kawai pianos in the smaller sizes, IMO.

    I say this based on my experience with Boston grands under 6', those pianos all have a wide tail and I thought it made a huge difference.

    @raagamuffin I got a response -- my friend owns a 5'4" Cunningham grand. She said she thinks the 4" inches makes a big difference, and she said her piano teacher was shocked when he played it because it sounded so great and sounded larger than he expected.

    Good luck and keep us posted as you work towards making a decision!

    raagamuffin Cunningham has a very good reputation. I think they’re the only ones who sell their pianos, and they are known for their technical work. Particularly if you’re in the Philadelphia area, I think that you can be confident that they will respond to any technical issues that may arise. I also understand that the pianos really are very good for their price point.

    At 15K, if you’re looking at new Yamahas/Kawais, I think you would be limited to their most entry-level models.

    The one other thing I’d add is that you may also want to consider acoustic uprights. At your price point, you can get an excellent upright piano. I am not sure of your reasons for looking at grands right now, but a high quality upright piano can be an excellent instrument for a student. That said, I suspect either of the Cunningham pianos you are considering will work very well for your daughter.

      Thanks for your thoughts Stub, Sgisela, and ShiroKuro thanks for inquiring with your friend..
      I think the way forward is clear not in small part due to your feedback, it is appreciated.

      ShiroKuro, We also played some other pianos and loved a Bosendorfer which has been marked for the future when she'll trade the one we get in and buy it for me. 😀

      I'll post once I have the piano in my possession .

        @raagamuffin how exciting!!

        Re the Bosie… yeah, that’s a super special instrument isn’t it!!! 🎶❤️🎶

        raagamuffin, good luck with your search & your purchase!

        Question: would you be able to fit a 5' 7" Grand?
        I'm asking because then you would hear a world of difference between the 5' & even the 5'4"
        I would check them out IF that size would fit, just thought I would throw that out there.

        Also, I am from Phila and I would HIGHLY recommend Cunningham Pianos, Rich Galassini and I go way back and he is now the owner of Cunningham Pianos. He is a great guy to deal with and to guide you thru the world of piano buying.

        Also - you should check out this web site - it is the Bible of Piano Buying and probably everyone of us have read thru it and know of it. https://www.pianobuyer.com/ it is ALOT of information but lots of fun to read about pianos, both Pros and Cons about buying New vs Used, etc etc etc.

        Welcome to the easiest going piano forum on the internet! LOL
        brdwyguy

        PS I don't mean to throw a 'monkey-wrench' into your decision but I personally believe you would be better off
        Purchasing a higher end new upright, like a Kawai 500 rather then a lesser brand Grand at 5'
        There are certain uprights that play and sound better then some small baby-grands - they really have improved over the years.
        PSS if you are aiming towards the Steinway route, I would avoid the Essex and look more at the Boston's (there is a reason they are more expensive!) Just Sayin' 😉

        brdwguy,
        Thanks for the info, I'll share my thoughts.
        We tried uprights, though not that particular Kawai. The one that came close to consideration was the Boston upright, but felt it was too bright ( I know some like that). My daughter actually preferred the muted sound of the Essex upright over that one.

        As for space, I have been constrained by my wife to a 5' 2" space. I only have one wall with about that much space, not near a vent or a window (it was a non starter to close/move vents etc. 🙂 ). The bench will protrude a few inches into a doorway, but that was a compromise we agreed on. I'm messing with her favorite room, moving furniture around, etc to accommodate it !

        I am in central NJ, so Cunningham was just another piano store I decided to visit, based on feedback at PW and a general google search for piano stores here. I didn't meet Rich, but I met one of his sales staff, who opened up a couple of pianos to show me the insides of the pianos, hinge construction for the keybed etc for different models. The Cunningham 5' (and more the 5' 10") was practically singing compared to the equivalent priced Yamaha, which drew my daughter to it. I do worry about the post sales aspects, not sure how well they will support if things go wrong. Working in a small business myself, I prefer to give my $$ to small businesses where I can, all things being equal.

        I did use pianobuyer, though they don't have an accurate SMP for Cunningham. I don't know if the numbers for its progenitor brand, Hailun, are accurate. Perhaps that's not the case for other models.

        Thanks for the welcome here.. Incidentally, I got tired of PW , because all my messages are being moderated, some of the messages I penned more than a day ago still has not been posted. Hence, I moved here, I can't handle postal mail type interactions in this digital age 🙂

          Just as an FYI - when I was talking about Boston vs Essex is was referring to the grands only. I never played the Uprights.
          Just so you know that Boston and Kawai are made in the same factories in Japan. The Bostons then are inspected by Steinway to make sure it is up to their standards.
          The Owner/Head of Kawai once said about the issue of Boston's and Kawai's "There will NEVER be a better piano coming out of Kawai, without the Kawai name on it" . Just sayin'
          Ok so you are working with a 5' / 5'2" grand.

          I do suggest you try the Kawai K300 , and the K500 and maybe the K800 but that is probably out of your range.

          Just as an FYI - C Bechstein makes the very best upright piano at a cost of $70k, that's right! BUT you should hear the sound.
          Check out on YouTube video comparisons from Merrium Pianos in Canada - they do great comparison videos.
          Stu Harrison is a great guy! I have had chats with him about different comparison.

          these videos will get you started - enjoy!
          brdwyguy

          PS most of us here on PianoTell are all from PW - we moved when it was sold and from trouble makers who would go around and just start trouble/issues in chats.

          ShiroKuro is the best, you can ask her questions and she is very helpful AND knowledgeable.

          I meant to add this youtube video of K500 as well

            Also, if you haven't checked them out - Faust/Harrison has a showroom in Northern Jersey but not sure you want to drive all the way up there.
            I live now down in Western North Carolina - in the neighborhood where Hurricane Helene hit (Don't Ask) 😉 we were very lucky we had no trees in our development!

            brdwyguy

            brdwyguy, glad to hear that you're OK after that Helene debacle.
            Thanks for posting these links to reviews.
            Here is my take on Merriam.
            Before I ventured out to buy an acoustic piano, I only wanted to upgrade to another electronic piano, in the $1-2k range (in Nov 2024). I scoured a bunch of sites and most gave positive reviews to the Roland RD88EX, with stage performance features. Merriam spoke quite glowingly about the piano sounds and its action. We couldn't find one to try locally, so I purchased it without sampling it. It was a big mistake. Its not an electronic piano I would recommend to even beginner pianists (sound wise).
            This experience made me lose some confidence in YT reviews. So deliberately, for this endeavor, I only looked at Merriam and other YT channels for information about how to buy pianos, or non brand specific info. I was jarred by my experience. I do have a new Roland RD 88EX to sell though 🙂

            brdwyguy ShiroKuro is the best, you can ask her questions and she is very helpful AND knowledgeable.

            Awww, thank you! 🙂

              @raagamuffin and @brdwyguy on the question of upright vs grand.... I am one of those people who prefers a grand even if it's smaller. I know the arguments for "a good upright is better than a small grand" but there's something emotional about playing a grand. And I say this as someone who had three digitals and three uprights (not at the same time! 😆 ) before getting my current grand piano.

              Also, I own a 5'8" piano and was originally planning on getting one smaller than that, so I just don't worry about the trade-offs of a smaller grand, because you get that emotional experience of playing a grand....

              Now having said that, if @raagamuffin is willing to consider an upright, then of course there are all kinds of great uprights to get, and that is a different conversation...

              BTW, raagamuffin, when you are measuring out your space, I generally recommend people add 3 feet from the edge of the keyboard to where the back of the bench will hit. This allows a piano tech to remove the action, but it also allows a pianist to sit a reasonable distance from the keyboard. So be sure your space allows for that.

              hang on, lemme go back to this....

              raagamuffin The bench will protrude a few inches into a doorway, but that was a compromise we agreed on. I'm messing with her favorite room, moving furniture around, etc to accommodate it !

              Is that protruding bench when the bench is pulled out for someone to play? IOW, when the bench is pushed in, it's not protruding? If so, I think that's ok.... But if the bench is always in the doorway, it might be a little bit much...

              On the topic of closing vents, I have the vent behind my piano bench permanently closed in the winter, and in the summer with the AC on, I open that vent but I have a damper to direct the airflow from the vent at the wall. My piano's tuning stability tells me it's working. But it's a little chilly there in the winter! 😅 That vent is probably 4+ feet away from the edge of the keyboard...

                ShiroKuro, how many inches would a standard bench stick out if it's tucked in under the piano ? 6 inches ? I've added a pic to give some perspective. Thanks!

                  raagamuffin ShiroKuro, how many inches would a standard bench stick out if it's tucked in under the piano ?

                  I'll measure mine and post later.

                  That is kind of a tight spot. You can't turn it so the straight side is on that back wall, can you? (IOW so the person sitting at the piano would have their back to the wall with the door)

                      brdwyguy Just so you know that Boston and Kawai are made in the same factories in Japan. The Bostons then are inspected by Steinway to make sure it is up to their standards.

                      I think that is Steinway marketing speak. When I was piano shopping, I compared Boston and Kawai instruments. I like the pianos from both brands. My impression was that Kawai's get more prep at the factory, and Boston's get more prep at the dealer. In either case, the quality of the dealer matters, but in the case of a Boston, I think it is particularly critical that the Steinway dealer one works with will stand behind the prep.

                      My $.02 anyway.