Thanks so much everyone!!! Bart, you be as nitpicky as you like - I feel that I have reached a stage where I need to work on musicality more, not just hitting the right notes at the correct time. I agree with everything you said in fact and it gives me something to work on in addition to the things already mentioned before 😃

WieWaldi Except the part between 1:03 and 1:14. Here in my opinion there was too much of pedaling. You didn't lift it after the RH jumps, no?

Funny you mention that 🙂 In fact, that is the only location in the entire piece where the pedal is used at all... well and the very last note. It's a very simple pedal:

I don't know yet how to film this, but I may be able to adjust the camera to show my feet as well as the hands, maybe turn the phone 90 degrees. When I practice again, I will pay attention if I lift the pedal early enough (not all the way at the end of the bar). Thank you for noticing that even without a video to show my foot 😃

Actually I watched "Let's Play Piano Methods" and he suggested not to pedal at all in this piece and to try to make the jump as legato as possible by reaching across. He probably has a point - it does contrast a little too much with the rest of the piece, I agree with that.

This is fun - I'm really enjoying this learning process 🤩

      Sophia I don't know yet how to film this

      Borrow smartphone of Simba, Lionel or Sandy? And if they refuse, you can ask your husband. Put both video tracks into DaVinci, and sync via audio-track. Then do picture in picture. I know, it is something new to learn about video filming&editing, but isn't this the Learners Lounge?

          WieWaldi isn't this the Learners Lounge?

          Yes, but but but... my poor head is getting so full with knowledge that we will have to replace the doors with double doors soon 🫡

          I promise I will give it a try soon, but first I want to concentrate on the blues lesson and all the other tips I received about this Alfred piece 😄

              Sophia If you could just record the same run with two phones (or cameras), and just upload the video separately. I could download and make a picture-in-picture video to show hand/foot coordination.

              It has to be the same run, though. Not two runs of the same piece.

                Ok, I don't think this is sufficient right? I mean, it shows the foot, but probably not exactly when it goes up and down. It also has a lot more mistakes, because I was trying to apply Bart's suggestion of left hand softer. Plus all the other stuff you guys suggested 😃 But I'm enjoying the process of refining this piece so much! Ooh I really need to get myself a teacher... somehow... someday!

                  Sophia Still not the best view, some light would help. Needed some time to analyze, when you pedal down and up. But here are my 2 cents:

                  The first pedal up comes together with G-up of right hand. So the pedal had no effect here.
                  The second pedal up was a bit later than your G-up of RH up, but still way before C-down. Here the pedal did something, but not enough.

                  (Horizontal blue lines is about how long you pressed the half-note-duration-G)

                  Train the reflex to lift the pedal exactly at the same moment when your finger(s) go down. (could be a LH-chord, or in this case a note that needs to be jumped with your hand). (I hope I am not repeating myself here)

                      Btw: just found the video of @Pallas in this thread. Here you can see clearly when the pedal should be lifted:

                      Exactly when the hand goes down! (in her case, a new chord)

                      Am I repeating myself?

                      And if her left hand does a run, the pedal stays up to avoid clashes.
                      You can debate about when to pedal down, and there is a lot of possibilities, but the nr.1 rule (hand down = pedal up) stays put.

                      WieWaldi But here are my 2 cents:

                      Thank you so much! 🥰 I still need to practice this particular passage a lot more (obviously) and now I can incorporate proper pedaling with it 🙂

                      It's becoming a juggling act... applying all the advice from everybody in this thread. I'm grateful to you all... the piece is already transforming from blah! 😣 to mwah 🤔 and hopefully someday the version it deserves: ahh! 😍

                        Sophia
                        This is much better. I would continue trying to play the left hand as soft as possible. Really exaggerate so it's barely audible. Maybe even just ghost the left hand (fake play without depressing the keys).

                        Now, the best way to reduce the clunkiness is to think of whole phrases instead of single notes and keep your mind ahead of where you're playing at the moment. I know this is hard but I think it's essential for developing your musicality.

                          Fantastic stuff, thank you 😊 Yes. it's time to start thinking about musicality now. Up to now it was hard enough just to get the dexterity so my fingers would obey... there wasn't much room for anything else. Much like you can't have a toddler solve a 5000 piece puzzle. It's not that I didn't want to, there just wasn't any room in my head for more than just playing the notes ^_^

                          But now that my fingers are getting a little more used to touching the keys, I think it's time to start working on the rest too. I learned a LOT in this thread alone, and it will definitely give me some pointers going forward with new pieces too. Thank you everybody 🙂

                          Edit: I just noticed that toddler isn't playing fair! It has one extra finger!!!

                          Sophia After watching your latest video, I now have a new question about the pedal. Should one leave the right foot always hovering or resting on the sustain pedal, even when they aren't using the pedal?

                              Good question! I am curious too. Gale seems to think we should, but I don't leave it there personally. Willing to change my mind on that for sure 😁

                              Edit some hours later: I sort of see it like the clutch in a stick shift car. I don't keep my foot on that either unless and until it's needed...

                              iternabe Should one leave the right foot always hovering or resting on the sustain pedal, even when they aren't using the pedal?

                              I would say mostly yes, unless you want to take a break to rest your foot, or if there is an entire section (say more than 5-10 seconds) which doesn't use the pedal.

                                An interesting exercise (which I've done and still do) is to become a foot watcher of good pianists when they play. It's like the feet have a brain just like a pianist's hands seem to have a brain. That may be a good way to answer this question.

                                  keystring An interesting exercise (which I've done and still do) is to become a foot watcher of good pianists when they play. It's like the feet have a brain just like a pianist's hands seem to have a brain. That may be a good way to answer this question.

                                  I have to respectfully disagree with this. Every good pianist will tell you to pedal with your ears not your feet.

                                  At the beginning you should learn the basic pedal technique like WieWaldi describes above but for more advanced usages you just have to experiment and find what sounds good. I do a lot of different things with the pedals - partial pedal to various degrees, partial release, flutter pedal, sometimes engaging una corda to various degrees - but if you asked me exactly when I do it I'd have no clue. It depends on how much resonance has built up from what I play before, the tempo, the mood I'm trying to bring out, etc. Even the accoustics of the room make a difference and I would pedal something slightly differently in my teacher's studio.

                                  So, IMO watching someone else's feet is not a good idea and you will not be able to replicate what they are doing from their feet alone.

                                      BartK Every good pianist will tell you to pedal with your ears not your feet.

                                      I tried very hard, but then I can't see the keyboard, nor the sheet music...

                                          Here's what I found to be a convenient way of obtaining the sound that I want by using the pedal: think of pressing on the pedal as a very quick up/down motion on the beat itself. Generally speaking, the amount of downward motion (travel) on the pedal should be the minimum required to obtain the effect you want.

                                          WieWaldi 😂😂😂😂😂 I have heard of "playing by ear" but you take the cake 🤣🤣🤣

                                            BartK I have to respectfully disagree with this. Every good pianist will tell you to pedal with your ears not your feet.

                                            Let's start with what problem we're solving, or what aspect we're addressing. Playing the piano is a synergy of senses, body, instrument, mind etc. and we put our focus where needed. There is a physical side which, if you started right, you don't have to think about. In my case, a few years ago, I had the habit of pushing the pedal very far down and up again, because of the bad piano I started on, and not having been observed. This had other side effects and made faster pedal a strain. My ear was fine - the sound I produced was perfect so the problem wasn't noticed. I retrained the physical motions and think I wrote about that elsewhere.

                                            Sophia is asking whether you keep your right foot constantly hovering over the pedal. This is a physical consideration and can also involve things like fatigue or strain. If you have 8 measures without pedal, nobody will hear whether your foot is back on the ground, or hovering. Ear and sound play no role for this. You may be thinking I suggested watching pianists' feet to get an idea of when to pedal. Not so. It was for seeing what people do with their feet.

                                            You will see a pianist slide the foot forward to the pedal, slide it back. The left foot might be doing a counterbalancing at times. Just seeing that gliding, and maybe seeing how a foot rests on a pedal without depressing, some of the easy motions, may give a physical feel.

                                              I have always been very fascinated by the pedal, I know I mentioned that before 🙂 It's exactly as you guys are saying: watching an advanced pianist play is like the foot has a life entirely on its own - it's incredible! I also agree that you can't learn anything from watching that foot go, because if that was the case, I would have have been a natural yeaaaars ago. As it is, I just started learning how to use it a few months ago and obviously not getting it right at all yet - hence this continuing thread ^_^

                                              But it just feels odd to keep that foot ready for action in a piece like that Haydn Serenade because in the entire piece the pedal is only used twice (I'm sure WieWaldi was keen enough to notice I accidentally placed my foot around the 46 seconds mark, then pulled it back without actually using it). It wasn't needed until an entire minute into the piece and it feels weird to keep that foot idly hovering all that time. Or worse, resting on the pedal - if I did that with the car clutch, it would be the fastest way to early gear repairs.

                                              But since I am only learning I'm definitely happy to be shown any errors in my thinking because I don't want to be stubborn when I'm wrong 😆 By the sounds of it though it seems that most here are in agreement that for longer periods of time, it is perfectly okay to give the foot a break and slide it backwards from the pedal... so I will continue on that same path 🙂