I don't mind how the instrument is called that you are playing, I only hope that you do get to play it often. And also that it gives you some joy. I have an acoustic grand and also a synth key digital piano. I like both and they get along splendidly. The one is very portable and the other one is clearly not. One is very loud, the other can bet turned very silently. I you prefer only to play on an acoustic and like to excel on that, then that is great. If you play on a 2-octave Casio and love it, that is also great. The other day I heard someone play on a short Casio and it was impressive. If a digital piano is what you love, that is also wonderful. However, if you prefer to try to replicate a acoustic piano by evolving the digital piano in the direction of hybrids, that's also cool. The digital piano can strive to match the acoustic piano, but it does not have to, it could also simply be a stand-alone musical instrument. Either way works. And then there people that intentionally mix piano sounds with strings and other instruments. That's me. That works as well. And some like to even add a little sustain electronically without having a foot pedal. That can work great in a band. And there are already plenty of names for all of these. Acoustic piano, digital piano, keyboard, hybrid, Midi-board with VST, etc.

So to answer your original question ... yeah, a digital piano is also a piano, i.e., a digital one 😃 Sometimes I refer to it simply as keyboard or slab. A hybrid piano is also a piano, i.e., a hybrid one. But are digital pianos, hybrid pianos, etc. the same as an acoustic piano ... probably not, because there is no need to tune the digital piano, the way the sound is generated is just different and that is o.k. as well.

So, whatever instrument it is that you like, play it and hopefully it makes your day brighter. Better yet, play and sing together with someone.

I'll never own a grand piano so I'm thankful for all of the advances we've seen in actions and VST's. Love to check out a hybrid but probably better off not knowing what I'm missing. 🙂

Sophia Oh and the American dictionary:

I'm surprised that a dictionary has "I play piano" instead of "I play THE piano". 🤣

      Of all the things I have at my disposal to spend emotional energy on today, this ain't one of 'em that I'm gonna spend much on. LOL!!

      Glad to know that some are so passionate about it. I just wanna hear a nice sound when I press down a piano key shaped object. Even that is subjective enough. 🙂

      johnstaf I'm surprised that a dictionary has "I play piano" instead of "I play THE piano". 🤣

      They want to give it an air of sophistication. You know, more like "I play football", "I play hockey" etc. And less like "I play the fool". Or are we getting the silly again? 😂🤣😅

        SouthPark is a digital piano a piano? Preview answer is yes. Absolutely. It is a piano. A real piano.

        I think this thread has pretty much exhausted everything there is to say on the subject of how one defines "piano", and the significance (or insignificance) of how a digital keyboard is classified. I'm pretty much of the mind that it doesn't matter for most intents and purposes. Ultimately, instruments are about making music. If you own a digital piano at home and can use it to play piano music, then we have common musical ground. Who cares if it's a "real" piano or not? If you enjoy it and can make music, then do so.

        With that said, I think it's a bit nonsensical to claim that a digital keyboard is a "real piano". Not even Pianoteq claims this. In fact, their website describes it as a "virtual instrument":

        Pianoteq is an award-winning virtual instrument for PC, Mac, Linux and iOS. It can be used both in standalone mode and as an instrument plug-in in VST, AAX, and AudioUnits hosts. What makes Pianoteq superior to other virtual instruments is that the instruments are physically modelled and thus can simulate the playability and complex behaviour of real acoustic instruments.

        If you visit their artist testimony page, you'll find numerous examples of artists using the word "realistic" to describe Pianoteq. If it was a real piano, how can it be "realistic"?

        Because of course it's not a real piano. It's simulating a real acoustic piano, often a very specific type of piano (e.g. Bosendorfer 280VC, Steinway D, etc). The analogy of planes and cars, originally being fully mechanical and then becoming more advanced, does not apply. A Tesla is not trying to simulate a Model T. It's aspiring to be its own vehicle.

        A digital piano simulating the sound of a Steinway D is, of course, not a "real" Steinway D. Attempting to argue this is ridiculous, and it doesn't even matter. If the instrument in front you - be it a digital or acoustic - helps you make music, then it is serving its purpose. One need not be offended by whether the instrument is "real" or "virtual".

            Frankly this reminds me of Matt Walsh's videos where he keeps asking "what is a woman?", as part of the inevitable trans debate. Does a digital piano have to identify as an acoustic piano to be considered a piano? Arghhh my head!!

            This whole discussion reminds me of Data. Quote from The Measure of a Man:

            You are endowing Data a digital piano with human real characteristics because it looks human like a piano, but it is not. If if it were a box on wheels, I would not be facing this opposition. (...)
            Data A digital piano is an extraordinary piece of engineering but it is a machine not a real piano.

            That was said by Commander Bruce Maddox. In the end, he didn't win his case...

            But going back to that dinky little keyboard - I'm really curious why you don't like it, @johnstaf before I waste money on something that's useless.

              Sophia This whole discussion reminds me of Data.

              TNG was one of my favorites. 🙂 Loved the character of Data.

                Sophia This whole discussion reminds me of Data. Quote from The Measure of a Man:

                You are endowing Data a digital piano with human real characteristics because it looks human like a piano, but it is not. If if it were a box on wheels, I would not be facing this opposition. (...)
                Data A digital piano is an extraordinary piece of engineering but it is a machine not a real piano.

                Interesting scenario. Pianos came from a human idea/concept of needing/wanting to find a solution - even one solution to get piano forte and (at that time - the 'sound' of struck string) to realise an instrument with a harpsichord keys layout. From that idea eventually came more than one solution for achieving that idea/goal, which is the reason why we have a few different types/kinds of piano today.

                Data is a machine that got invented by a human. But humans didn't invent themselves - at least as far as we know. Although, humans are machines too - biomech machines. And if Data became adequately more evolved/advanced, then there is the real possibility of Data's upgrade for synthesising particular components or elements being able to function to 'reproduce' (in one sort of 'fuzzy' way) with humans (eg. from the replicator technology and transporter technology and accumulated knowledge in the sciences etc). Leading to some sort(s) of humans, having characteristics that we wouldn't foresee right now, as we just can't foresee it now.

                But getting back to pianos. It is now known that the initial form factors for piano are grand and upright. But these days, there is grand, upright and compact/portable/slab, and even deconstructed form (eg. VST, PTeq etc).

                And under types of pianos - we now have digital, acoustic, hybrid, electric etc. I will put an emphasis on 'etc' because there are those systems such as acoustic pianos outfitted with sensors so that they can be in one 'mode' or the other - ie, acoustic piano mode, or digital piano mode. And then there are the 'deconstructed' systems - such as VST plus keyboard.

                Sophia I'd say that kinda covers all 😃

                That's almost correct (in my opinion). It will correctly be 'a musical instrument generally with a row of back and white keys that are pressed with fingers to play notes'. Omitted the 'large', because it doesn't have to be 'large', where large is relative. There do exist relatively small pianos, particularly of the digital type.

                Also, even though in some posts I did mention playing with fingers, there are very nice cases we have seen online with at least one person playing a piano with her toes, due to impairment since she was a baby. And the music she played/plays was/is very nice indeed.

                shawarma_bees If you own a digital piano at home and can use it to play piano music, then we have common musical ground. Who cares if it's a "real" piano or not? If you enjoy it and can make music, then do so.

                With that said, I think it's a bit nonsensical to claim that a digital keyboard is a "real piano". Not even Pianoteq claims this. In fact, their website describes it as a "virtual instrument":

                That is the exact thing. The exact thing. Notice the contradiction? If it doesn't 'matter' to someone, then they wouldn't initially say that it doesn't matter, and then follow up with a 'that said' -- and then begin to add their opinion, such as 'it's a bit nonsensical that .....'. If you know what I mean. This also goes for taushi and some others too - where they write - it doesn't matter. But then they follow-up with details that makes it obvious that it matters to them.

                This thread is about piano. And a piano can generally - note generally - be defined as an instrument with harpsichord keyboard layout, that is polyphonic, and produces sounds when we push the keys, and one characteristic feature of it is piano forte -- the capability of adequate soft loud control of the sounds/pitches. And the sounds are 'generally' of the kind that are 'more or less' the sound of acoustic pianos.

                Pianoteq itself is a software. But the combination of Pteq and computer and keyboard and cables etc forms the piano. The integration of those components result in a piano.

                The main point of this thread is the function - the concept - of piano forte (now shortened to piano). Adequate soft loud control of the independent notes (generally of harpsichord keyboard layout, but it doesn't actually have to require a harpsi keyboard layout - but it turns out that the harpsi keyboard layout is probably the most effective input layout - which is why it has stayed with us for all this time). And since it has been achieved in various ways, we have ended up with various sorts of real pianos. All are real, because clearly we can play them (use them) in real-time, with music coming from them. And acoustic pianos (or even clavichord/clavier) were the 'first' kind(s) of real pianos.

                        SouthPark But getting back to pianos

                        I'll be really really honest here... I'm finding all this nitpicking about "what is a piano" extremely boring. And pointless. And futile. Kinda like this:

                        By now I think everyone has given their opinion on what they consider a real piano and what's not. Kinda like the argument at exactly which point Data becomes a real human... some will say he always was, others will say he never will be. Yet no one ever questioned Data's usefulness to do what he was designed for.

                        So if the object is to get back to pianos, I like to spend my time on a more useful discussion, such as finding the perfect little non-piano which we have been discussing these past few posts... I still want that cat piano... I'm sure they'll be back in stock someday right? 😃

                            Sophia I'll be really really honest here... I'm finding all this nitpicking about "what is a piano" extremely boring. And pointless. And futile. Kinda like this:

                            I know. It wasn't me doing the nit picking though. It's the ones that have the opportunity to understand that there are indeed several kinds/types of pianos today. And obviously they are all real. There are the acoustic ones and the digital ones, and they are all excellent.

                            No nit picking from my side at all. I'm just saying that acoustic pianos are not the only kind of real piano.

                              I think we all will agree that you made your point. Again. And again. Can we also agree to completely drop it now? I have a feeling that otherwise this thread would get locked and I'm way too lazy to start a new one about cute mini versions 😁

                                Sophia Actually ... can you please take your 'non-piano' topic to a different thread that you can start up/create yourself?

                                I just wrote 'non-piano' because somebody else wrote non-piano. So I'm just using that word combination. I'm just saying it because this thread really is for teaching the essence of piano, and understanding the meaning/definition of piano. Also for a sense of unification.

                                And when people knowingly go off on a tangent, then it gives the mods their chance to lock the thread for their 'reason'.

                                And this good thread about piano should not be locked. We don't want a repeat of pianoworld behaviour where a pianoworld mod comes along to do their 'conversation exhausted - locking thread' power-trip thing. And importantly, I wrote pianoworld ... not Piano Tell.

                                It should stay more or less on-topic, and not go right off tangent, and of course stay nice.

                                  I acknowledge your desire to continue indefinitely with the discussion of the essence/definition/meaning of "real piano" in this thread and not go off tangent, nor have a lively discussion on fun topics such as cat pianos or other such deviations. And of course I'm (almost) always nice so I will express my hope that you will get what you wish for 🙂 The stage is all yours!

                                    Friends, how could things have gone downhill so badly like this?☹️
                                    To me it doesn't even matter what the instrument is called. To alleviate some of the tension, let's listen to this beautiful meditative track from the movie Blade Runner... a futuristic yet nostalgic piece by Vangelis called Memories of Green. It's about the memories of a replicant, a futuristic artificial being made to be as human as possible; those memories are actually false memories of a human life, implanted in the replicant at its inception. When the piece starts the piano sounds very electronic , but then in the middle part, when the replicant is deeply immersed in its memories, the piano sounds more like an acoustic piano, for a very short time. But what strikes me is that the piano sounds beautiful all throughout the piece. And it is, unmistakably, the sound of a piano: (pardon the bad visual quality of this very old video)