Neuroscience-based efficient practice schedule

twocats · 2024-05-15T16:46:46+00:00

I had meant to share this on PW a long time ago but never got around to it! My friend shared these videos by Dr. Molly Gebrian, a neuroscientist who is also...

Pallas

JB_PT I just hope I see some positive changes!

I wish all the best for you. ❤️

lilypad

Pallas

Is anyone else still poking at using this schedule?

I started 3 pieces after my community college class finished earlier this month. They've recently moved from 3 days in a row to every other day. So far, so good. I'm curious about the longer pauses. I know I can be working on other sections during those times, but unless I'm working on a 3-month "stretch piece", my pieces typically only take around 3-weeks from start to finish, so I'm not sure about that 2-week break in the method.

Pallas

lilypad I have the same challenge. I'm trying to stack pieces into sets, and I get the sense it will be messy for a while as I try stuff and change the sets around. I have decided that messy is ok, and kind of fun to try different ways of alternating the pieces. I think something will gel over time.

Animisha

Pallas Is anyone else still poking at using this schedule?

Yes, just poking. I have added breaks in my practising schedule - nothing like one or two weeks, but one to four days. I am not convinced yet. After a break of four days with a piece that I know very well - actually, I had previously made a recording that I hoped that my teacher would approve of (she did, except for this one detail that I need to fix), I was a bit shocked to find out how much had gotten lost and how many mistakes had found their way back into the piece.
Today I played this piece six times at a slow tempo, hoping to get it back. I'll find out tomorrow...

Pallas

Animisha Ah, sorry to hear you had a loss of progress. That's a bummer.

twocats

Animisha that's a bummer! I find that after a break I usually need to run through it a couple of times for it to get recovered from my long term memory.

Animisha

Animisha I'll find out tomorrow...

I managed to make three recordings without making any major mistakes. Tomorrow I'll decide which one to send to her for her judgment. 😅

Animisha

I am still struggling with this.

I just realised that the spaced practice schedule has made me practise more massed practice! Usually I work with four pieces, but I have now expanded this to five pieces. But still, if I take breaks of two or three days, that means that many days I only have two pieces to work with during that day. Now, during a good practice day, I try to practise four times thirty minutes. That means one hour per piece, and that feels too long! And one hour per piece is actually massed practice.
My early intermediate pieces are not really suitable for breaking into parts either, plus most of the parts are too short to spend a lot of time with one part only.

A solution would of course be to work with many more pieces, but five pieces feels like the maximum of what I can handle.

So I am struggling...

Pallas

Animisha I feel exactly the same! It's taking some time to get a feeling for how much to do. I've been adding, dropping, and rearranging, trying to figure out a good balance. But I have the leisure of no deadlines and no expectations, so I think I'm doing it on extra easy mode. I imagine it would feel more stressful if I had a teacher waiting for my progress. Best of luck to you in finding a rhythm that suits you.

twocats

Animisha maybe the 30 minutes per piece is too long? Are you forcing yourself to spend a specific time on each piece, or just working on it until you see some improvement? Perhaps the way you're working on each piece needs to be changed, focusing on fluency vs time spent.

For me it was such a blessing to learn about the schedule because I can't practice more than one or two movements of my piece even with 5-6 hours of practice because it's so long and challenging! But I remember when I was a kid I would wonder how conservatory students could practice 8 hours a day and now I'm like ahhhhh there is not enough time in my day to practice everything I want to! I get it now haha.

lilypad

Animisha

I just realised that the spaced practice schedule has made me practise more massed practice!

This happened to me recently. I aim for 15 minutes to practice on a piece. So starting out on this schedule:

Days 1, 2 & 3 learn & practice M1-13 (some repeated phrases, so longer section). Approx. 15 minutes.
Day 4 - take day off from M1-13 and learn M14-17 (more difficult material) Approx. 15 minutes.
Day 5 - Resume work on M1-13 and continue M14-17. 35 minutes.
Day 6 - Another day off M1-13; continue M14-17. Only 5 minutes.

So for me, the time can even out. But maybe not on days I need it to 😄.

Animisha

twocats maybe the 30 minutes per piece is too long? Are you forcing yourself to spend a specific time on each piece, or just working on it until you see some improvement?

No, my goal is to practise four times half an hour per day, and as long as I can work on each of my four pieces, I rarely run out of things to practise. I simply follow my feelings. When I feel it is enough, I practise something else. I may come back to the same piece after a short break, or not.

Pallas I feel exactly the same!

Molly Gebrian is a professional musician, and I guess her general ideas apply also to us - but her schedule is probably better suited for more advanced players than we are.

keff

In my trial use of the schedule I am returning to practise sections of the score that have had a week's rest. It may take a couple of play throughs to get it back to where it was but my general impression is..."oh I've played this piece before and it is now easier".

The schedule also seems to help concentration on the bars which I find difficult but this is something I can't explain.

JB_PT

keff It may take a couple of play throughs to get it back to where it was

I read an interesting book last year about talent and one topic was how to improve practice efficiency (in general, not specific to music). One thing that was mentioned is that it's more effective if we are constantly challenged. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'challenge' of reacquainting ourselves with the music after a short break helps in that regard. It can also take us out of auto-pilot/EZ mode, which I recognize is happening to me quite often if I'm working on the same pieces multiple days in a row, depending on where I'm at in the learning process.

keff The schedule also seems to help concentration on the bars which I find difficult but this is something I can't explain.

I'm noticing this too...for me I think it's because I'm doing deliberate practice with a plan, which is an important element that I've found difficult to incorporate into my habits so far. I think this will really help me if I stick to with it.

twocats

Animisha Molly Gebrian is a professional musician, and I guess her general ideas apply also to us - but her schedule is probably better suited for more advanced players than we are.

Hmmmm some thoughts. If you're advanced and need to optimize your practice because you don't have enough time, her schedule is very freeing, because it gives you "permission" to take breaks. I'm not being strict about it at all but am following the spirit of the schedule. It's hard to purposely take a 2 week break but I certainly do it by accident (in non-cramming times, sometimes life just gets busy and I don't practice). Also I personally can't expect to learn a difficult piece in just a month, so I'm doing multiple cycles of her schedule.

If you're struggling with the logistics of the schedule, I agree that it's a good idea to just follow the principles. Sometimes have some space between days of practicing the same thing. Get enough sleep! I think the key takeaway is that some breaks are actually good; a lot of people feel like they need to practice everything every day to improve, so it's a mental shift to allow breaks.

Animisha

I am now back to more interleaved practice again. A bit of this, then a bit of that, switching between all four of my pieces.

twocats I think the key takeaway is that some breaks are actually good; a lot of people feel like they need to practice everything every day to improve, so it's a mental shift to allow breaks.

Yes! Some breaks are actually good.

I make recordings of my pieces that I send to my teacher. After I have made a recording I am satisfied with, I don't play the piece any more, and that also creates a natural break in case my teacher did not pass me on the piece.

Stub

I have been trying to at least follow the principles. I have been trying to plan ahead a bit on what to work on each day, but I do find myself changing things on the day of practice.

I think the practice schedule in Gebrian video probably works best for more advanced players and for those who do not have weekly piano lessons. I'm on summer hiatus with my lessons, so it's a good time for me to try it out, but I'm not sure how to handle it with lessons every week.

twocats

Stub I'm not sure how to handle it with lessons every week.

I think your teacher would have to buy into not checking in on certain pieces if you're in the middle of the 2 week break!

JB_PT

Stub I also have weekly lessons and just started trying this out. I'm keeping my mouth shut about it for now. 🙂 I figure once I get through a month following this plan, either it will not have worked out as I hope and I won't mention it at all....or I'll get to have a "ta-da!" moment when I present a new piece that's in really good shape, then I'll explain how I got there and see what he thinks about it.

Animisha

twocats I think your teacher would have to buy into not checking in on certain pieces if you're in the middle of the 2 week break!

Even without Molly's schedule, I have done this with my teacher without any protests from her. I just said, in this lesson I would like to focus on this and that piece, and not on this other one that we worked with last time.

Stub

JB_PT Stub I also have weekly lessons and just started trying this out. I'm keeping my mouth shut about it for now. 🙂 I figure once I get through a month following this plan, either it will not have worked out as I hope and I won't mention it at all....or I'll get to have a "ta-da!" moment when I present a new piece that's in really good shape, then I'll explain how I got there and see what he thinks about it.

Sounds reasonable. I'll make a stab at the plan and see where things stand when lessons resume in the middle of August. For a long time I was working on at least four pieces at a time and bringing them to an okay status, but lately we've been going more deeply into pieces and bringing them to a higher standard. I had a lesson a few days ago and we spent an hour on one page of one piece. I get a lot more out of lessons like that than when I'm trying to cram something from three different pieces into the hour.

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