Neuroscience-based efficient practice schedule

twocats · 2024-05-15T16:46:46+00:00

I had meant to share this on PW a long time ago but never got around to it! My friend shared these videos by Dr. Molly Gebrian, a neuroscientist who is also...

twocats

ErfurtBob Has anybody really done this with the schedules and everything?

The friend who told me about it does! I'm not doing it strictly but I'm following it generally. And it supports my own experience with taking many weeks or months off practice and still somehow making progress after I return.

keff

ErfurtBob You may have seen from other posts that I am in the middle of trialling Dr.Molly Gebrain's schedule using the first movement of Mozart's sonata in A K331. In this case there was little difficulty in splitting it into sections and I used each variation as one section. On the first day of reaching variation five I thought I might have to subdivide but it didn't come to this. I have yet to start variation six and if I find that difficult it may have to be subdivided.

Currently I am using Apple Calendar to track the schedule. I made a few errors scheduling some of the variations onto their given days but eventually sorted it out. Twocats has recommended Google Calendar but I haven't got around to this yet, without any calendar I would be lost in knowing what to practise.

I am pleased with the progress made using the schedule.

Stub

After a week I'm already straying. Keeping a detailed calendar and sticking to it for the long run is where I fall short. However, the concept of practicing brand new material for several days straight and then giving it a day off here and there is what I was already doing. What I didn't do is make a strict schedule and stick to it. Keeping these things up for the long run (months or longer) is where I think detailed plans run into trouble. But--I think the concepts help inform our practice, whether we follow "the plan" strictly or not.

Animisha

Stub After a week I'm already straying. Keeping a detailed calendar and sticking to it for the long run is where I fall short.

I have also tried to work with a schedule - even though it is too much for me to keep a detailed calender. But all four pieces I work with presently are not new pieces any more, so I have tried to give pieces a break for one day or two days.
On my level, early intermediate, this is not easy. The first days were fine, but then there was this day in which I didn't have enough pieces to work with. So I started with a fifth piece. But the next day, I had to work with my older pieces again, also because they need to be ready for my lesson, and I could not work with this fifth piece as intensively as I like to do with new pieces.

I am not sure yet if the one or two days breaks give me better results. However, I do notice that I am a somewhat more focused when working with a piece. I have the feeling that this is my chance to learn this now, because tomorrow I cannot work with this piece! So I better do the best I can today!

thepianoplayer416

When it comes to learning a language, the first few months are the most important. People need to get beyond the basics meaning a lot of time and effort. The most efficient is space repetition. You'd practice up to an hour at a time and allow time for your brain to rest. There are ideal intervals for repeating something so that it would be stored in the long term memory.
Music practice is the same. You'd practice with breaks in between. Doesn't mean you can't practice for 3 hours a day as long as you give sufficient breaks in between.

twocats

Pallas I'm looking forward to seeing if this staggered-breaks method really does shorten the length of time it takes me to learn a new piece.

My friend swears by it!!

JB_PT

twocats I just got around to watching these videos last night. Thank you so much - I am absolutely fascinated!

Currently trying to figure out what the takeaways might be for me...I already have an unusual practice schedule with a lot of breaks built in. This may be why I apparently learn pieces quickly (according to my teacher...still feels slow to me 😐). I might pick something new this week and experiment with deliberate spacing to see what happens. I think the hardest part would be to put it away for a full week, especially if it's something I'm enjoying.

I perused the other videos by Dr. Molly and found many to add to my watch later list - I love this kind of stuff!

twocats

JB_PT I also have natural breaks built in but am trying to be more deliberate about spacing. That 2 week break at the end is scary, though! It's so interesting that she knew it would work in theory but wasn't brave enough to try it out until the pandemic, when she wasn't performing!

Luckily (??) what I'm working on is so long that I just can't practice all four movements in one day, even if I practice for hours. So it's easier to just redirect the focus to other parts of the piece while I'm on break.

keff

Pallas Is anyone else still poking at using this schedule?

Yes, I'm still on the schedule with the Mozart. I believe it is working with this piece and for me very well.

twocats

Pallas I was like Sloth Plays Piano!

My Brahms was like this, an hour just to get through a handful of pages! It will come to you with time and patience 🙂

JB_PT

Pallas Is anyone else still poking at using this schedule?

Yes, but I just started Wednesday so I'm a bit behind. I chose 2 new pieces with different types of challenges and will try to work on them on different days after I get through week 1.

JB_PT

Pallas Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to take full advantage of this idea. I work long hours half the week and there's no time or energy remaining for practice, so I'm only at the piano half the week (but twice per day). I always feel like I "have" to work on all of my pieces every day that I practice...so I am interested to see if/how I progress when I start skipping some days for these pieces.

Just in the few days I've been doing this it's impacting how I practice though. I've always been bad about creating plans/goals. Now I'm taking notes on what I've done and making plans for the next day. This is not a very good experiment design - too many variables! But obviously the bottom line is that I want to practice & learn more efficiently, and I don't care too much if this topic helps me directly or indirectly. I just hope I see some positive changes!

lilypad

Pallas

Is anyone else still poking at using this schedule?

I started 3 pieces after my community college class finished earlier this month. They've recently moved from 3 days in a row to every other day. So far, so good. I'm curious about the longer pauses. I know I can be working on other sections during those times, but unless I'm working on a 3-month "stretch piece", my pieces typically only take around 3-weeks from start to finish, so I'm not sure about that 2-week break in the method.

Animisha

Pallas Is anyone else still poking at using this schedule?

Yes, just poking. I have added breaks in my practising schedule - nothing like one or two weeks, but one to four days. I am not convinced yet. After a break of four days with a piece that I know very well - actually, I had previously made a recording that I hoped that my teacher would approve of (she did, except for this one detail that I need to fix), I was a bit shocked to find out how much had gotten lost and how many mistakes had found their way back into the piece.
Today I played this piece six times at a slow tempo, hoping to get it back. I'll find out tomorrow...

twocats

Animisha that's a bummer! I find that after a break I usually need to run through it a couple of times for it to get recovered from my long term memory.

Animisha

Animisha I'll find out tomorrow...

I managed to make three recordings without making any major mistakes. Tomorrow I'll decide which one to send to her for her judgment. 😅

Animisha

I am still struggling with this.

I just realised that the spaced practice schedule has made me practise more massed practice! Usually I work with four pieces, but I have now expanded this to five pieces. But still, if I take breaks of two or three days, that means that many days I only have two pieces to work with during that day. Now, during a good practice day, I try to practise four times thirty minutes. That means one hour per piece, and that feels too long! And one hour per piece is actually massed practice.
My early intermediate pieces are not really suitable for breaking into parts either, plus most of the parts are too short to spend a lot of time with one part only.

A solution would of course be to work with many more pieces, but five pieces feels like the maximum of what I can handle.

So I am struggling...

twocats

Animisha maybe the 30 minutes per piece is too long? Are you forcing yourself to spend a specific time on each piece, or just working on it until you see some improvement? Perhaps the way you're working on each piece needs to be changed, focusing on fluency vs time spent.

For me it was such a blessing to learn about the schedule because I can't practice more than one or two movements of my piece even with 5-6 hours of practice because it's so long and challenging! But I remember when I was a kid I would wonder how conservatory students could practice 8 hours a day and now I'm like ahhhhh there is not enough time in my day to practice everything I want to! I get it now haha.

lilypad

Animisha

I just realised that the spaced practice schedule has made me practise more massed practice!

This happened to me recently. I aim for 15 minutes to practice on a piece. So starting out on this schedule:

Days 1, 2 & 3 learn & practice M1-13 (some repeated phrases, so longer section). Approx. 15 minutes.
Day 4 - take day off from M1-13 and learn M14-17 (more difficult material) Approx. 15 minutes.
Day 5 - Resume work on M1-13 and continue M14-17. 35 minutes.
Day 6 - Another day off M1-13; continue M14-17. Only 5 minutes.

So for me, the time can even out. But maybe not on days I need it to 😄.

Animisha

twocats maybe the 30 minutes per piece is too long? Are you forcing yourself to spend a specific time on each piece, or just working on it until you see some improvement?

No, my goal is to practise four times half an hour per day, and as long as I can work on each of my four pieces, I rarely run out of things to practise. I simply follow my feelings. When I feel it is enough, I practise something else. I may come back to the same piece after a short break, or not.

Pallas I feel exactly the same!

Molly Gebrian is a professional musician, and I guess her general ideas apply also to us - but her schedule is probably better suited for more advanced players than we are.

keff

In my trial use of the schedule I am returning to practise sections of the score that have had a week's rest. It may take a couple of play throughs to get it back to where it was but my general impression is..."oh I've played this piece before and it is now easier".

The schedule also seems to help concentration on the bars which I find difficult but this is something I can't explain.

JB_PT

keff It may take a couple of play throughs to get it back to where it was

I read an interesting book last year about talent and one topic was how to improve practice efficiency (in general, not specific to music). One thing that was mentioned is that it's more effective if we are constantly challenged. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'challenge' of reacquainting ourselves with the music after a short break helps in that regard. It can also take us out of auto-pilot/EZ mode, which I recognize is happening to me quite often if I'm working on the same pieces multiple days in a row, depending on where I'm at in the learning process.

keff The schedule also seems to help concentration on the bars which I find difficult but this is something I can't explain.

I'm noticing this too...for me I think it's because I'm doing deliberate practice with a plan, which is an important element that I've found difficult to incorporate into my habits so far. I think this will really help me if I stick to with it.

twocats

Animisha Molly Gebrian is a professional musician, and I guess her general ideas apply also to us - but her schedule is probably better suited for more advanced players than we are.

Hmmmm some thoughts. If you're advanced and need to optimize your practice because you don't have enough time, her schedule is very freeing, because it gives you "permission" to take breaks. I'm not being strict about it at all but am following the spirit of the schedule. It's hard to purposely take a 2 week break but I certainly do it by accident (in non-cramming times, sometimes life just gets busy and I don't practice). Also I personally can't expect to learn a difficult piece in just a month, so I'm doing multiple cycles of her schedule.

If you're struggling with the logistics of the schedule, I agree that it's a good idea to just follow the principles. Sometimes have some space between days of practicing the same thing. Get enough sleep! I think the key takeaway is that some breaks are actually good; a lot of people feel like they need to practice everything every day to improve, so it's a mental shift to allow breaks.

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