Spaces: Request For Comments

Animisha
I don't think these settings would be automatically enforced by the forum software. @navindra please correct me if I'm wrong but I think these are only flags that you set on any new topic to tell everyone how you wish to interact.

For example, "please no suggestions for improvements", or "I don't want X to comment on this thread".

BartK Aha!

BartK "I don't want X to comment on this thread".

I am not at all sure this is a good idea. In a public forum, all members can respond. It is part of the deal.
I know, for my part, if an OP would say: "I don't want Animisha to comment on this thread" I would be sad and upset.
So I don't think it is a good idea to create this possibility.

BartK "please no suggestions for improvements"

PS. We can already say this, at any times, anywhere in the forum, and I haven't seen anybody not honouring this request. There is no need for a specific forum for this.

You can't force a user to not comment. If you don't want to see their comments, then just ignore them.

Animisha I am not at all sure this is a good idea. In a public forum, all members can respond. It is part of the deal.
I know, for my part, if an OP would say: "I don't want Animisha to comment on this thread" I would be sad and upset.
So I don't think it is a good idea to create this possibility.

I agree with this.

navindra currently we have an Internal secondary tag that the topic starter can apply to their threads.

I had no idea, but I found it. When you click on "Choose tags" and scroll down, there it is.

navindra I thought that Journals would get their own space and I'm personally not loving the idea of them going into a "catch all" space. I think Journals are a great way for a single person to chronicle their learning journey (or to create a single thread to post their works in progress). An additional benefit is that if it's a single thread, it would be easy to "ignore" for anyone who's not interested, without ignoring that user entirely.

I look at PT on my phone and it's easiest to click on the "Discussions" tab which contains all threads across all topics, so with this use case the "forum bucket" doesn't matter so much. But if you have an official concept of Journals where they're tied to the journey of a particular user, I think it would encourage more people to start them and it would be something unique to PT! It's interesting to see people's progress and as their playing develops over time, plus as a bonus it could keep the forum a little tidier

Also, regarding "healthy off-topic": ultimately it's up to you how much off-topic you'd like to allow, but I think allowing all topics would degrade PT. If it were possible on the mobile website to only view a group of sub-forums of interest using settings, then I could just filter out an "off-topic" forum (I remember you sending me a search mechanism, but it didn't show unread posts in bold), but the forum software doesn't work that way. I am interested in piano and some general music-related subjects but I think there's plenty of other online space for all the other topics that could be discussed and I personally have no interest in seeing that here.

I like the idea of moderation preferences, especially in the context of journals. As we'd discussed before (maybe privately?), I got the concept of Journals from another forum that I'm a part of. A Journal "belongs" to that user and is a safe space for them, and they can choose what kind of discussion (content and tone) they want from other participants.

navindra Unfortunately, the One Rule isn't to everyone's pleasing and sometimes folks just don't get along. We've had some folks say the rule is too restrictive and others say the rule isn't nearly restrictive enough. It's a balancing act.

Wow, I'm pretty shocked that "be nice" can be considered too restrictive? For anyone who feels this way, there are plenty of other places to talk about piano.

Navin, thank you for being so thoughtful about how to organize PT and to all the mods for keeping it a great place. Looking forward to seeing how it grows!

Animisha I know, for my part, if an OP would say: "I don't want Animisha to comment on this thread" I would be sad and upset.
So I don't think it is a good idea to create this possibility.

I don't think this should be something a person posts upfront (calling someone out in the initial post, which IMO violates The One Rule), but I can see a situation where someone's comments are making the original poster's experience worse and then the OP says something like "I don't like the direction this conversation is going, I ask that you don't comment on this thread anymore". Then I think this should be respected and mod enforced.

As far as intent goes, kudos @navindra on the work and ideation put into this.

I think that, because of the variety of viewpoints; communication styles; motive/intent; etc., that the more "products" that are created, for the intent of building a sense of civility within a forum, can inadvertently backfire.

For me, I lean more towards simplicity of forum layout, and being content that for certain individuals, it's just not for them, and they eventually are (worst case) banned. Or others eventually don't find PT appealing. Self-selection.

I could see creation of more of the well-intended spaces can create a rabbit hole.

That said, I'm on board regardless of outcome.

For reference, here's two conversations from the past that are relevant:

Allowing OP to set commenting guidelines (2024/05)

Should Pianotell have a journal forum? (2024/07)

navindra if it makes sense to have a new sub forum for the kind of blogging/journaling content you’re indicating, then I think it’s worth splitting this out into its own place. And I think that for things like blogs/journals etc it makes a good amount of sense for the primary person to be able to indicate the kind of participation/feedback that they want. That said, this is a public forum and I don’t think people should expect the kind of control they’d have as compared with writing in your old fashioned journal that has a little lock on it. However, I don’t think people expect that, either.

I guess my question is about moderation more generally. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but my perception from the OP is that there was unhappiness about moderation and this new sub-forum is supposed to respond to that by being a place where people can dictate their moderation preferences and these will be respected.

My opinion is that this isn’t going to work well. Moderation is really tricky, and I think it’s not a good idea to have the primary poster in a thread be the de facto moderator for their thread. When things get difficult, you need someone outside of the situation to make the tough calls.

This said, I do understand that there has been at least one instance recently when more than one person felt like threads had gotten to a point of toxicity, and that the moderators’ response was insufficient to make them comfortable with ongoing participation.I think this was quite unfortunate, and I miss their voices here. I also recognize that decisions about moderation are fraught, that you will never please everyone, and that as a space grows, it becomes more and more difficult to maintain an environment where all participants feel welcomed and encouraged to participate fully. If you want to have a re-think about the moderation policies, though, I think this needs to be a very serious re-think. I don’t think that it will work to have lots of threads with different moderation policies, determined by as many participants as threads.

My heart goes out to you Josephine, you have gone through a very tough time.
For what it is worth, I never experienced you as easily getting angry or annoyed. You may have felt it more inside of you than you have shown this to us.

Josephine I do like the idea of creating some sort of banner in the opening post with a description with the sort of comments you would like (and wouldn't like) to see in your topic.

I don't see the need for such a banner for most topics. If one feels like specifying the sort of comments they would like, which happens, I think it is better to just explain them in the first post. "This thread is created for.... " and "if you would like to talk about such and so, please start your own thread."

Also, "template for writing helpful critique", I would prefer some room for spontaneity. Because everybody is subject to the One Rule, most of the time it will be fine.

Animisha I don't see the need for such a banner for most topics. If one feels like specifying the sort of comments they would like, which happens, I think it is better to just explain them in the first post. "This thread is created for.... " and "if you would like to talk about such and so, please start your own thread."

The rule suggestion I made in May was targeted towards people sharing their performances, and not all posts. I agree with you that people can (and have) specified at the front what kind of criticism they want, and now I believe no additional rule needs to be made regarding it. Not being considerate of OP's wants would fall foul of the One Rule. (I do, however, like the idea of having a warning pop up in the "Reply" message box that a certain type of criticism has been specified by the OP.)

On a similar note, thread-splitting is easily applied, and I don't think users need to necessarily request at the start that everyone stay to a particular topic. If a thread drifts too much, any user can ask the mods for a thread split. Thread-splitting has solved a few problems here, and I think earlier use of it might have prevented most of the blowups. It would be nice if, when early signs of drama appear, users let mods know that thread-splitting might be a good idea.

Animisha

Thanks

Yes, I agree, and I can always ask specifically for replies about what is good about my playing and what needs to be improved. And then the topic can change into how to improve those things, maybe with advice about exercises or certain pieces you can learn from.

Animisha My heart goes out to you Josephine, you have gone through a very tough time.
For what it is worth, I never experienced you as easily getting angry or annoyed. You may have felt it more inside of you than you have shown this to us.

I agree!

@Josephine I completely understand what it is like to care for a cat with health problems, and how much we love our pets and how stressful it can all be. The two cats I had when I joined PW are no longer with us, and now we have three different cats, but I did not update my username

I always thought your concerns were very reasonable and that you have always been kind and calm.

Josephine It may sound weird because it's 'just a cat' but he was very important to me.

With you all the way, Josephine. We too lost two cats only weeks apart almost exactly one year ago. One due to old age and the other because of a sudden illness - gone in less than two weeks, and we were suddenly left with just one surviving cat. That's how the two kittens came into our life... but we too still grieved over our losses a long time.

Josephine it's often me complaining and being dramatic in those threads.

Absolutely NEVER seen anything like that! I think you are among the calmest and most reasonable forum participants!