Animisha I know, for my part, if an OP would say: "I don't want Animisha to comment on this thread" I would be sad and upset.
So I don't think it is a good idea to create this possibility.

I don't think this should be something a person posts upfront (calling someone out in the initial post, which IMO violates The One Rule), but I can see a situation where someone's comments are making the original poster's experience worse and then the OP says something like "I don't like the direction this conversation is going, I ask that you don't comment on this thread anymore". Then I think this should be respected and mod enforced.

    As far as intent goes, kudos @navindra on the work and ideation put into this.

    I think that, because of the variety of viewpoints; communication styles; motive/intent; etc., that the more "products" that are created, for the intent of building a sense of civility within a forum, can inadvertently backfire.

    For me, I lean more towards simplicity of forum layout, and being content that for certain individuals, it's just not for them, and they eventually are (worst case) banned. Or others eventually don't find PT appealing. Self-selection.

    I could see creation of more of the well-intended spaces can create a rabbit hole.

    That said, I'm on board regardless of outcome.

      • SStub

      • Post #13

      HeartKeys I think that, because of the variety of viewpoints; communication styles; motive/intent; etc., that the more "products" that are created, for the intent of building a sense of civility within a forum, can inadvertently backfire.

      For me, I lean more towards simplicity of forum layout, and being content that for certain individuals, it's just not for them, and they eventually are (worst case) banned. Or others eventually don't find PT appealing. Self-selection.

      This reflects my take on things as well. If you build out, creating more subforums and/or rules for responding, etc, it gets much too complicated and ultimately frustrating for users. Keep it simple.

        navindra if it makes sense to have a new sub forum for the kind of blogging/journaling content you’re indicating, then I think it’s worth splitting this out into its own place. And I think that for things like blogs/journals etc it makes a good amount of sense for the primary person to be able to indicate the kind of participation/feedback that they want. That said, this is a public forum and I don’t think people should expect the kind of control they’d have as compared with writing in your old fashioned journal that has a little lock on it. However, I don’t think people expect that, either.

        I guess my question is about moderation more generally. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but my perception from the OP is that there was unhappiness about moderation and this new sub-forum is supposed to respond to that by being a place where people can dictate their moderation preferences and these will be respected.

        My opinion is that this isn’t going to work well. Moderation is really tricky, and I think it’s not a good idea to have the primary poster in a thread be the de facto moderator for their thread. When things get difficult, you need someone outside of the situation to make the tough calls.

        This said, I do understand that there has been at least one instance recently when more than one person felt like threads had gotten to a point of toxicity, and that the moderators’ response was insufficient to make them comfortable with ongoing participation.I think this was quite unfortunate, and I miss their voices here. I also recognize that decisions about moderation are fraught, that you will never please everyone, and that as a space grows, it becomes more and more difficult to maintain an environment where all participants feel welcomed and encouraged to participate fully. If you want to have a re-think about the moderation policies, though, I think this needs to be a very serious re-think. I don’t think that it will work to have lots of threads with different moderation policies, determined by as many participants as threads.

          • Sophia

          • Post #16
          • Edited

          I just now saw this thread, and I have to say I'm not too keen on this Spaces idea. I think that we (collective we) should not fall into the trap of making a classic mistake: trying to find a mechanical solution for every social interaction scenario. You can't please everybody, it is simply impossible.

          Personally I think this forum is run just right. The moderators are balanced, the people are nice, and the very rare topic explosion dies eventually without even the need to lock them for long. If someone has a gigantic issue with how things are run, they have the freedom to find another forum, or start their own the way they want to run it.

          I also am not too keen on "allowing any topic", because right now there is some controversy in the world nothing to do with piano, and I think that should stay out of this forum no matter what.

          Let's not make things complicated just to satisfy a small minority... that would be my preference. Just my 2ct here 🙂

          Edit: and on top of that, there is a possibility to start a PM thread with as many participants as you would like to invite. For the ones who really feel the need to discuss things privately with a select group, even if it is large, there is that option for them.

          Wow! I'm so glad I requested comments and you all obliged with deeply insightful comments! 👍

          I'm convinced — I'll put the Spaces idea on hold and focus more exclusively on the Journals concept.

          I think you all made really good points. I was trying to make things better for all, but I do agree there's value to simplicity as well. It is indeed very hard to please everyone, and almost every single time there are metaphorical casualties on all sides.

          twocats Wow, I'm pretty shocked that "be nice" can be considered too restrictive? For anyone who feels this way, there are plenty of other places to talk about piano.

          Historically, I believe Piano World was a little more lax in terms of moderation policy on the Tuner / Tech forum in particular. I was not proposing to relax the One Rule, however, as I deeply value the friendly and helpful community here. 🙂

          Let me come back with ideas for the Journals section and see what you all think!

          --
          Beach L168, Wish, baCh, WOW Petrof, Fake Steinway, VS
          TIME

            My heart goes out to you Josephine, you have gone through a very tough time. ♥️
            For what it is worth, I never experienced you as easily getting angry or annoyed. You may have felt it more inside of you than you have shown this to us.

            Josephine I do like the idea of creating some sort of banner in the opening post with a description with the sort of comments you would like (and wouldn't like) to see in your topic.

            I don't see the need for such a banner for most topics. If one feels like specifying the sort of comments they would like, which happens, I think it is better to just explain them in the first post. "This thread is created for.... " and "if you would like to talk about such and so, please start your own thread."

            Also, "template for writing helpful critique", I would prefer some room for spontaneity. Because everybody is subject to the One Rule, most of the time it will be fine.

            *
            ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                • rsl12

                • Post #20

                Animisha I don't see the need for such a banner for most topics. If one feels like specifying the sort of comments they would like, which happens, I think it is better to just explain them in the first post. "This thread is created for.... " and "if you would like to talk about such and so, please start your own thread."

                The rule suggestion I made in May was targeted towards people sharing their performances, and not all posts. I agree with you that people can (and have) specified at the front what kind of criticism they want, and now I believe no additional rule needs to be made regarding it. Not being considerate of OP's wants would fall foul of the One Rule. (I do, however, like the idea of having a warning pop up in the "Reply" message box that a certain type of criticism has been specified by the OP.)

                On a similar note, thread-splitting is easily applied, and I don't think users need to necessarily request at the start that everyone stay to a particular topic. If a thread drifts too much, any user can ask the mods for a thread split. Thread-splitting has solved a few problems here, and I think earlier use of it might have prevented most of the blowups. It would be nice if, when early signs of drama appear, users let mods know that thread-splitting might be a good idea.

                  Animisha

                  Thanks ❤️

                  Yes, I agree, and I can always ask specifically for replies about what is good about my playing and what needs to be improved. And then the topic can change into how to improve those things, maybe with advice about exercises or certain pieces you can learn from.

                    Animisha My heart goes out to you Josephine, you have gone through a very tough time. ♥️
                    For what it is worth, I never experienced you as easily getting angry or annoyed. You may have felt it more inside of you than you have shown this to us.

                    I agree!

                    @Josephine I completely understand what it is like to care for a cat with health problems, and how much we love our pets and how stressful it can all be. The two cats I had when I joined PW are no longer with us, and now we have three different cats, but I did not update my username 😉

                    I always thought your concerns were very reasonable and that you have always been kind and calm.

                      Josephine It may sound weird because it's 'just a cat' but he was very important to me.

                      With you all the way, Josephine. We too lost two cats only weeks apart almost exactly one year ago. One due to old age and the other because of a sudden illness - gone in less than two weeks, and we were suddenly left with just one surviving cat. That's how the two kittens came into our life... but we too still grieved over our losses a long time.

                      Josephine it's often me complaining and being dramatic in those threads.

                      Absolutely NEVER seen anything like that! I think you are among the calmest and most reasonable forum participants!

                          @Josephine - I’m so sorry to hear about your sick cat. I’m not a pet person, but I can feel from your post how much love and dedication you had for this member of your family.

                          Like everyone else has said, at no time do I feel like you were anything but gracious and even-tempered in your posts, and I don’t think you were ever overly emotional or dramatic. You have nothing to apologize for.