Discussing Molly Gebrian (Splinter Discussion of "Molly Gebrian 7 Months Later")

Nightowl · 7 Jan

If I am kicked out of the forum for what I've said, it will be the equivalent of burning me at the stake for being a heretic, and will prove what I've been saying about the whole thing all along.

Exactly. When people are so quick to shut down opposing views it is reminiscent of dictatorships who expel or imprison people with dissenting political views. It's strange that a site which is based in America, a place known as "the land of the free", is not keen on free speech unless people tow the party line. Anyway, you need not worry @PianoMonk because I don't think you're the real target here - that's me, obviously. Because I committed two heinous crimes 1) I suggested that maybe if people spent less time "Mollying" (a term used by Pallas upthread) and more time practising, they might progress just as well, and 2) I dared to laugh at your wry humour and agree with your very well worded and logical posts.

As for labels, MG fans are not alone in being labelled, this happens with many fan groups. For instance, Gary Numan fans are known as "Numanoids" and Taylor Swift fans are labelled "Swifties" - labels which those fans happily embrace. I've never heard any of them taking offence at those labels, instead they embrace their monikers with good humour (something sorely lacking on this thread).

Kkeystring · 7 Jan

PianoMonk ..... to see if learning a song, (something like Mile's Davis' Blue In Green) would be played any better by those .....

I don't think you read my post addressing the practicality/sense of this and you probably can't find it, so here it is again.

(1) Everybody here has different abilities, different backgrounds, different experience. So if somebody who started piano half a year ago, and someone else who has a solid background with 10 years of study, both participate, the results will reflect that background, rather than recently embracing a new approach or not.

(2) The actual question is whether an individual has been practising in an ineffective, time-consuming manner with few results - and if that individual can start having better results over a shorter timespan. The only competition you can have is an individual person's past and present vis-a-vis different approaches they are using. It's "person A present" vs. "person A past" --- -not person A vs. person B.

Does this make sense?

I am not following MG's method because what she presents includes things I learned, and is missing things I learned. The goals addressed are different than the goals that I have. What remains is that if anyone has been doing ineffective things, then changing that may improve things. It may not be those particular things.

PianoMonk · 7 Jan

Ithaca Please re-read my last post. (Which may very well be the last)
Here's hoping that all of you find ways, any way at all, to find joy in learning to play the piano.

Kkeystring · 7 Jan

PianoMonk (something like Mile's Davis' Blue In Green)

Immediately - I'd SUCK recording something like that. I have no feel for jazz; I'm so square that a table appears round next to me and while by now I know things like to "not clap on the wrong beat", I have feel for it. My performance in comparison to yours, or someone who grew up with this kind of music and owns the language, would not reflect how effective my practice approach is, compared to yours or theirs. It would reflect that background, and those (lacking) abilities.

That's a more concrete example of what I was trying to say in my previous post.

Kkeystring · 7 Jan

PianoMonk Please re-read my last post. (Which may very well be the last)
Here's hoping that all of you find ways, any way at all, to find joy in learning to play the piano.

I've read yours. But have you read mine?

PianoMonk · 7 Jan

Ithaca Trolling??? Really???? I had no idea my comments, and my impressions of Molly, would touch off such a firestorm.
I'm done.

PianoMonk · 7 Jan

keystring I give up. You win. Forget I ever said anything. PianoMonk has left the building.

twocats · 7 Jan

PianoMonk I don't think you read any of the comments refuting the ideas in your posts. Or you didn't understand them, or just chose to ignore them.

twocats To address earlier points in the thread: she doesn't have to have coached the best or to be a world-class musician. Her teachings are about how to be more efficient and spend less time to achieve the same or better results.

Quoting myself here. Her methods are about personal improvement and learning efficiency based on how the brain works.

Some of her advice has helped me and I look forward to trying other things that she has suggested. I'm grateful that the research exists and that she put it out there in consise form, tailored to musicians. If there's something I find doesn't work for me, then I won't do it. It's all a personal journey and the only comparison I need to make is with my past self.

Nightowl · 7 Jan

Pallas My intention was never to "divide people or put them down" - that is just your own (mis)interpretation.

One day I saw this thread and a thought occurred to me, so I posted it. There was no hidden agenda. People did not share my view, that's fine, we don't all have to agree on things and I do not feel insecure about my choices. PianoMonk recently posted some views which I agreed with, and I enjoyed his humorous take on things so I responded on the thread. You may dislike our opinions and not appreciate our humour, but it is a stretch to call our posts disrespectful. However, you clearly have a problem with me and have done everything in your power to make things uncomfortable for me, including reporting me to the mods in the hope that I'll be banned from this site. In short, you have turned into the very sort of person that you so often complain of - a bully.

Nightowl · 7 Jan

PianoMonk That's a shame, your posts are intelligent, entertaining and amusing, I think it would be a real loss to this forum if you are driven out by people who have had a sense of humour bypass.

twocats · 7 Jan

Nightowl when someone says "please don't call us names, I don't find it funny" the response is not to double down and insist that it is funny and it's just a different sense of humor, but to say "sorry, I didn't mean to offend you" and then don't do it again.

I was not offended by the names but I don't think the responses to the people who were upset by it were appropriate.

ShiroKuro · 7 Jan

Multiple posts in this thread have now been flagged and the thread has devolved to the point where it needs to locked.

rsl12 · 8 Jan

Hello fellow Piano Players,

First of all, thanks for your patience as we sorted through all the flagged comments. When we get flooded with flags, we can't always respond to every user individually, Also, when the issue is big, it takes the mod team time to discuss it. So we appreciate your understanding.

I have created this splinter thread for off-topic comments in "Molly Gebrian - seven months later". The original purpose of that post was to gather the opinions of people who have used Molly Gebrian's methods for the last 7 months. All other Molly-related discussion belongs here. But before you continue your conversation, please remember that there is only one official rule at PianoTell, and it is:

rsl12 Be nice to each other. Don't routinely make other people's experiences worse. Comments that contain personal attacks, hate speech, trolling, unnecessarily derogatory or inflammatory remarks are not welcome and will be removed.

Many of you participants in this discussion will probably agree that other people's comments have made your experience worse. But also consider the possibility that one of your own comments has worsened another's experience. I hope you will all agree that:

Making people feel like they can't participate because they don't agree is not welcoming behavior. As long as the original poster hasn't explicitly said otherwise, it's entirely okay to state a disagreeing opinion, and to criticize someone else's approach to doing something. But...
Criticism should be done with a lot of consideration of others' feelings. The harsher the criticism, the more careful you should be.
If people are offended by a joke or criticism, It's not nice to shrug off their feelings, or to restate the joke/criticism in a more emphatic way. Please use manners and show some consideration.

To those of you who find yourself often in the middle of a controversy, consider that you may be part of the reason for escalating tempers. If you have a moment, this article may be helpful: "The Art of Disagreeing Agreeably".

Based on what I've seen of your past behavior, I feel confident that this conversation can carry on in a more civil manner. Please be nice.

ShiroKuro · 8 Jan

Thanks @rsl12 for the reminder of our rule here at PT and for getting us all back on track! And thanks for unlocking and separating these threads!

Now, PT friends, please carry on! There are lots of ideas about pros and cons of MG's approach (I have some of my, pros as well as cons), so let's get on with that discussion!

Hhebele · 8 Jan

I don't follow MG. I watched some of her videos last year and that's all. Frankly, planning & tracking every little detail of practice is too much for me. Sounds like too much overhead and potential cause for disappointment. My goal is simply sit on the bench and do something piano, every single day. Still failing at this some days .

However, I still find MG discussions useful. Like; importance of sleep, breaks, splitting the piece into manageble bits, correct repetitions etc. Some of these might be traditional ideas but it doesn't really matter. It was useful to me.

ShiroKuro · 8 Jan

hebele Sounds like too much overhead and potential cause for disappointment.

This is one of my main concerns with the MG approach, that's it's not sustainable for many adult learners, and that as a result, it might end up making people feel discouraged, as if, by not following the method just so, they're wasting their time or something.... I feel like it would be helpful to have a "toned down" version of her approach, that is maybe a little more accessible and do-able, but that still gets some of the core components.

Kind of like trying to diet or eat healthy, where there ought to be a method that helps you do your best even if it's not adhering to the diet all the time....

twocats · 8 Jan

ShiroKuro I haven't read the book, I've only watched the video series about spaced practice that I shared here. And then I'm picking up nuggets here.

It seems that she doesn't have a specific method, but a lot of strategies that can be taken piecemeal? For example, 10 second microbreaks. I was annoyed and wondered if I could browse my phone during the breaks but it turns out that 10 seconds is very short. Or random practice. I have flagged my trouble pages to do focused practice on those and am trying to get away from my habit of starting at the beginning and then stopping to practice when I hit a trouble spot.

I don't do her rule of repeat until clean 3x3 (I think?) because that is overwhelming. But I am taking it to heart that the more I play it cleanly, that's what's getting written into my neural pathways and I shouldn't let myself get away with repeated mistakes in the same spot.

Nightowl · 8 Jan

rsl12 Thanks for creating this splinter thread - it's a great idea and I appreciate the way that you carefully included all the posts which were slightly off topic in the other discussion.

I also appreciate the additional points you made and I would like to add something in relation to point 3. Here in the UK, our humour is often rather barbed in comparison to American humour. It is common for friends to tease each other fairly brutally and have ongoing running jokes against each other. Despite our stereotypical "stiff upper lip" reputation, we Brits are actually pretty good at laughing at ourselves, it's a very British trait. However, this episode has reminded me that people from other cultures may not share this type of humour, so I will dial it down in future.

Thank you for your moderate moderation, I appreciate your way of handling things.