For Finale users

keystring · 2024-08-26T20:10:30+00:00

I don't know if this is the right section. I got a notice from Finale that they were discontinuing the software and an invitation to get "Dorico" at a disco...

MRC

PianoMonk By the way.... MuseScore can import Finale files

MuseScore cannot directly import Finale files (format .mus or .musx). You need to first export a MusicXML file from Finale, which MuseScore can then import.

Both Dorico and Sibelius can also read MusicXML files. In all cases there will be some loss of information, but it's certainly better than starting the score from scratch.

Here's a video from a Finale user who's tried the MusicXML route in MuseScore and Dorico:

keystring

MRC Here's a video from a Finale user who's tried the MusicXML route in MuseScore and Dorico:

That was informative. I only caught up to what XML is a few days ago. I had a vague idea of things being saved as XML or .musx" prior to that. I have a better understanding now from that video.

PianoMonk

MRC Yeah, I meant Finale to MuseScore through musicMXL, which is pretty standard.
Here's what MuseScore has to say:
https://musescore.org/en/node/14318

pseudonym58

Since this is a longish thread, I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned already:
It has been subsequently announced that makemusic will continue to support new installations "forever". I guess their legal department advised them that they were setting themselves up for a class action lawsuit if they did otherwise.
It's not expensive to keep a server running with a "back end" application to authorize users' serial codes.

pseudonym58

You will definitely want to test MusicXML export/import before you put yourself in a position where you need to rely on it. It has its limitations.

keystring

I've bought Dorico at the special discount price for Finale owners, and tried the first tutorial.

FrankCox

If this outfit has shut down all sales and updates for their software and intend to do absolutely nothing with it going forward then they should release the software and the source code on a website like github or sourceforge under a license like gpl or bsd.

That way people interested in continuing to use it update it themselves or even pay someone to update it for them in the future.

Anything less is pretty much "screw you jack" from that company.

Seeker

keystring I now know that you can save Finale music as XML (looks like code) and if I drag XML into Finale it looks like music again.

True, but the details are important. For example, if one has fingerings in a score which is being as exported as XML, these are possible problems.

Searching "musicxml import loses fingerings" I got these results.

Verovio: The issue is reported in the Verovio GitHub issue #803, where fingerings are not preserved during import from MusicXML. The problem arises from the lack of positioning information in the <fingering> elements, causing the fingerings to be automatically placed and potentially misplaced when loading the file into different music notation software.

Dorico: Dorico imports fingerings correctly from MusicXML files exported from Finale, but not from Sibelius, as Sibelius does not use the <fingering> element.

MuseScore: When copying and pasting measures with fingerings, the fingerings may not be retained, especially when pasting into a tablature staff. Additionally, exporting to MusicXML and importing back into MuseScore may also lose fingerings.

Validation Errors: Some MusicXML files may contain validation errors, which can cause fingerings to be lost during import. For example, exporting a score with string numbers 0 (indicating open strings) may result in a validation error and subsequent loss of fingering information.

keystring

Seeker True, but the details are important. For example, if one has fingerings in a score which is being as exported as XML, these are possible problems.

An important point. Since I barely started with Finale with only a superficial grasp of its workings, this did not concern me. I have no work saved. But I did take one of my teacher's simpler files which was set out for teaching beginners, converted it to XML in my Finale, saved it, and dragged that into Dorico and while everything was there, it looked different. I do know, from having read the literature, that there are default settings in Dorico - that you can make the Dorico settings the same as your Finale settings, which is supposed to make it look the same. But that is all theoretical. It seems a lot of work, and I don't know enough about either program.

keystring

My first meanderings into Dorico.
I do have some basic grasp of Finale, but could not just hop into Dorico and enter notation the same way. For example, stacking two or three notes on top of each other like a chord (or less) - the next note slid over into the next beat and my intended chord was a melody. 😃 There is a command for that kind of stacking. If you do want a chord, you click a chord icon.

There is a long introductory writeup saying that the underlying philosophy or premise is different from other notation programs. I think they said it is with the working composer in mind. You start by entering "players" - if in an ensemble or whatever one of the players will play both flute and piccolo, those are the instruments for Player 1. After that you enter the instruments for that player. Then there is the idea of "streams". If I have a piece with three movements, each movement is a "stream" for the same work. Several pieces belonging together in a same suite or group of works, are each "streams". That's way past my needs.

You don't have to specify how many measures - it generates the measures as you go along. You can omit putting in rests: it shows beats above your measure so you can just input the next note where you want it, and it inserts rests for you. I believe it also means that you can replace things anywhere without everything sliding over in a measure. The beats that it shows can be calibrated on the bottom - if you want to show only quarter note lengths, or smaller units.

I found the first tutorials much easier to follow than those of Finale. In Finale, I vaguely remember that you were led through creating music step by step and that was supposed to teach you how things work. Here the first tutorial was on "inputting notes", one element at a time, and in the background there was a "scribble sheet" score for playing around with the ideas. I was able to try out each thing to make sure I understood how it worked. After the 2nd or 3rd tutorial, it seemed to jump things needed. The tutorials found on-line and via the site were handy.

My biggest obstacle with Finale was figuring out how it worked. The tutorial style was not compatible with how I learn (or I was too dense. 😉 )

thepianoplayer416

As a MuseScore user myself there is 1 feature that has not been perfected which is converting a PDF file full of notations back to a format that is readable by MuseScore.

Many programs including Acrobat, web browsers, Adobe PhotoShop, MS Word, etc. can open a PDF like a picture file. There are programs that can convert the text in a PDF back to something that can be edited in MS Word. Converting a PDF to a MuseScore file can be tricky since the resolution of the content in a PDF file can vary. In most cases you're not going to get everything converted correctly so some editing afterwards is required.

pseudonym58

thepianoplayer416
That's an extremely difficult trick to pull off if we're talking about any PDF of sheet music. So much variance in object design, from clefs to notes, etc.

keystring

thepianoplayer416 Many programs including Acrobat, web browsers, Adobe PhotoShop, MS Word, etc. can open a PDF like a picture file. There are programs that can convert the text in a PDF back to something that can be edited in MS Word. Converting a PDF to a MuseScore file can be tricky since the resolution of the content in a PDF file can vary. In most cases you're not going to get everything converted correctly so some editing afterwards is required.

I can't say anything about MuseScore since I transitioned to Dorico from Finale, and have gone much further already with Dorico than I ever had with Finale. There I've only read about importing via HML - haven't tried to go PDF => Dorico.

But I do know about PDF => MS Word. I use this all the time, and it is not at all perfect. I work as a translator. Most material clients send me is in the form of PDF scans. I can convert these to MS Word and thus get a word count. When there are numbers, and especially codes like "743ABC1234567 224XY!Z" it is easier to copy and paste, and more accurate than writing it out. However (1) There will be errors. (2) Formatting can be wonky.

In terms of errors, 8 often becomes B; zero can be the letter O, or the letter O can be rendered as a zero. A diacritic such as a French accent can show as what it is (select language before converting) or become something weird. It is far from perfect.

I always create my own file with my own formatting, and copy and paste things like numbers and proper names over. If I try to write "on top of" the converted file, I can find some hidden formatting creating a mess. If the target language uses more words, suddenly you can't fit them into that space, and you'd need an IT degree to figure out what got formatted and how to undo it. Converting TO PDF is easy: converting FROM PDF has major hiccups.

I can imagine, therefore, that conversion of PDF notation into MuseScore and other music programs might be at least as iffy. Converting from: easy peasy.

FrankCox

I wonder what it is about musical scores that makes them more difficult to ocr than ordinary text. I use tesseract regularly and it's the next best thing to a magic trick when you can take stuff as diverse as a grocery receipt, a page from a book, or a handwritten letter and get a text file that's usually pretty close if not perfect. But somehow music scores can't be done that way (yet).

Maybe it's just a lack of interest/development in that field since there's are less use cases for music ocr than ocr for other text based stuff.

thepianoplayer416

So far, software companies haven't decided to standardize a set of computer codes that can be converted into notations on a screen. When the Internet started, companies & programmers came up with a standardize set of HTML coddes. All Internet browsers can display the text & graphics based on the HTML codes in a similar way.

Having music files saved to a standardize set of computer codes would make switching from 1 program to another less of a hassle.

pseudonym58

thepianoplayer416 and the existing Music XML is far from ideal.

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