Steady pulse

SouthPark Thank you for responding.
Pushing is a term mostly to do with rhythm and voice. Examples include dare I say it ... F Sinatra - my way. Where the vocals are pushed forwards, it became one of his signatures. Another the often where the rhythm section or one of the instrument leads the beat or follows, Often it is the bass that leads the beat or say the drums delay, much much finer than the slight swing.
All these things can and are replicated with the piano, whether as part of a band or mostly as soloing. It is too much like AI (God forbid) to follow the patterns directly all of the time, it is where the personal character of each of us can and should be explored. We are live humans and it is the expression that can never be replaced in my mind. You remark about slowing and speeding is relevant too but is not really what pushing and pulling is about; it is a dance around the structure to develop interesting juxtapositions. I will endeavour to find some noteworthy pieces and post here. I realise that this area is for the very advanced but. Often many people are too zealous over time on the beat and the percussive nature of the piano could and should be used to enhance dynamics. Will come back .... Regards Andy

Here is an example of a solid groove, funk , here the Nord playing ahead of the grove to add emphasis and colour.

Just one more to emphasise the theory side but not exclusively here is an good 'simply explained' article about Rubato for those who need it. But pushing and pulling is the modern and perhaps 'on the fly' term.
https://thepianobear.wordpress.com/2017/10/01/tempo-rubato/
Hope this helps

Regards Andy

I kind of remember a "class" by Dick Hyman where he was demonstrating some of the things that happened with the development of jazz through history. And I remember of him demonstrating keeping a rock solid time with the left hand (probably stride piano) while changing the timing of the right hand, both slower, falling behind the beat, and faster, jumping ahead of the beat. Ain't gonna lie, my brain hurts when I try to figure out what Dick Hyman is doing. And his hands move so fast my eyes can't keep up. But... he is an incredible player with astounding accuracy and timing.

I'm not really a big fan of "counting outloud". LOL!! Seriously, I have listened to some play and do some radical variations in their tempo while doing those same radical variations with their counting. At least the metronome doesn't lie to us.

Not saying counting outloud or using a metronome aren't useful, I think both have their place. Mostly, I think they help us to compartmentalize the music so that we know what it's supposed to sound like. And then... we can make it our own, which may or may not follow a metronome well. Useful servants. Tyranical masters.

Bellyman I'm not really a big fan of "counting outloud". LOL!! Seriously, I have listened to some play and do some radical variations in their tempo while doing those same radical variations with their counting. At least the metronome doesn't lie to us.

Oh yes, I went back to the first post and if the problem is internalizing the pulse, using a metronome will help for sure! If the problem is accurate rhythms within a bar, that's when counting out loud is very useful.

I'm sure if my pulse was off that I'd just adjust my counting to it

Monviso The notion that the net balance of the "ebb and flow" should be zero is an interesting reminder that fluctuations go in both directions: both faster and slower.

People say this but I would say reality is much more complicated. There are places where you just accelerate, and places where you just slow down. I think the only real way, unfortunately, is to listen and accurately imitate. It's like an entire rhythmic language unto itself. And you can not reduce a language to a small set of logical rules.

I basically never use the metronome. My teachers also have not recommended that I use it, asking me to develop my internal sense of pulse instead. To this I credit developing a better, more fluid and "real" sense of rhythm. But it might not be for everyone. It is really part of the current zeitgeist but when I look at books and recordings of the old masters especially, I seldom see the use of the metronome so advocated.

But you need to develop a sense of rhythm. I can play in time with a metronome if I wanted to, and that is important.

Soory to be a pain but thought of another old track which played often back in the day. This is a cover to note but no this recording the Bass drum is very hard to hear but I used the snare as a rock solid beat (metronomic) it is clear to hear the bass is pushed as the original and the piano is pulling and pushing when he wants to increase and decrease the dynamic. To me this is best effect kinda also rounds out the sound issuing waves of enhanced dynamic. Keep using the snare drum to keep reference. I will shut up now - This one is important to stress pushing and pulling to juxtaposition around a steady beat, never to slow or speed up the piece. Thus rounding and phasing enhancing and to bring forward an instrument. the bass notes on the piano of of interest to us and it is clear to here both on this and the original to see the push bass note in and out when the player decides to answer the bass guitar or other way round during the peice.