If I were using something like Band In A Box, I'd probably be creating my own arrangements with it and then playing along. I don't tend to do things like everyone else, tending to pair songs together that may not have been paired previously, taking off onto little side trips where I might play a part of a different song in place of the current one where the chord structure works just fine, but it's unexpected, sometimes even a bit humorous or playful. I'd probably not be that interested in off-the-shelf tracks to play along with.

I do kinda remember a friend, years ago, that had a Yamaha keyboard that would do some little tricks like play along with bass? or drums? and had a few quick "buttons" of some kind that he could quickly generate a 2 bar? or 4 bar? ending. Not even sure what that would have been. I recall it being pretty simple, not really able to handle complex chord structures, that kind of thing. Certain kinds of music it might work better with than others. Probably not so great with jazz.

Anyway, I haven't exactly seen setups that were geared towards flexible live performance, usually more geared towards laying down some decent sounding studio tracks. And I suppose that's nice. Maybe not quite what I'd ultimately hoped to find. Never know, with AI so commonplace in music these days, it may not be that far off that AI could be a person's backup band, live, impromptu. Guess we'll see.

johnstaf Sophia Now THIS is not a piano, and I desperately want it 😁

I have one and it's horrible.

It has tiny keys that are difficult to control. I didn't buy it to play like a piano, I wanted and extra MIDI controller for different functions.

    navindra Thanks navindra. Very nice keyboard you have. That 32 key one has even less keys than my monophonic 37 key one, which I absolutely love. I think it is or was one of the first publicly-available 'physical modelling' keyboards. Still works excellently after all this time. Definitely not a piano, but does amazing stuff with the ribbon/mod unit, and after-touch keys. Just captured this pic 10 mins ago to give a shout-out to keyboards, which certainly have at least some piano DNA, as can be seen in the key layouts of keyboards. And pianos generally have a keyboard front-end too of course.

      Thanks you so much for splitting this topic navrinda, I appreciate it 💚 This topic turned out to be a lot of fun... and of course course now I'm adamant that I want something... how would this look dangling from my purse?

      All jokes aside, I have been eying up something cheap and cheerful like the Alesis Melody 54... or would that be horrible too?

      @Gombessa how do you like your little Casio? It's a bit pricier than some of the others and I do need some spousal approval (or rather, avoid too much spousal disapproval) so I try to limit spending too much money on my new hobby 😃

        Sophia @Gombessa how do you like your little Casio? It's a bit pricier than some of the others and I do need some spousal approval (or rather, avoid too much spousal disapproval) so I try to limit spending too much money on my new hobby

        Oh, that might have been Navindra 🙂 I don't have a mini keyboard, as fun as I agree it would be to noodle on! But to be honest, I think if I had one in my office, I wouldn't get any work done, I'd just be practing the passages that are giving me so much trouble on my full-sized piano in the next room!

          Whooooops, sorry 🙂 Yes I meant navrinda of course! <wipes glasses clean>

          I've owned a lot of keyboards over the years, in chronological order - upright piano as a child (well, parents', really), Hohner Pianet M, Micro-Moog Synthesizer, Baldwin Solid-Body Electric Harpsichord (the very one once used by the group The Royal Guardsmen and heard on the Snoopy vs. The Red Baron recordings.), RMI electric piano, Wurlitizer p200 electric piano, Rhodes suitcase, Brambach baby grand, a 1959 Hammond M3 customized with a line out, Yamaha pf85, Yamaha ypp35, Yamaha SY77 synthesizer, all gone. I currently have a Yanaha p35. The only one of the bunch that I kind of miss, and only once in a while, is the Hammond.

          Nice! In my case the idea is definitely not to replace the lovely Clavinova. So whatever will be added to the piano family will have to be sufficiently different - as in, it has to have lots of voice and rhythms, and shouldn't take up too much space. And some cuteness factor is definitely preferable - ooh that cat piano! I can't get it out of my mind, you wicked @Rubens you!

            Sophia
            Haha! My apologies! But there is a fun story on why I found that piano on Google. I was eating black licorice (which I love) and some of it got stuck between my teeth and when I looked in the mirror I thought my teeth looked like a piano keyboard, which was hilarious. So I went on Google to search for "piano teeth", and found our feline friend!

              This talk of small keyboards made me wonder about something. I’ve heard about pianos being fitted with a 7/8 keyboard, which is something I would like to do with my piano but never will. If I could find a digital piano with a weighted 7/8 keyboard, I would be all over that. Does anyone even make those?

              Yamaha C5X

                Cassia If I could find a digital piano with a weighted 7/8 keyboard, I would be all over that. Does anyone even make those?

                They are out there, but typically created by very niche manufacturers. Here's an example:

                There are also pianists who have had their digitals (MP11, etc.) modified with narrow keys. I'm sure at great cost!

                    Gombessa thank you for this! I am now on their mailing list 🙂

                    Yamaha C5X

                      Cassia As far as I know, the NK5.5 featured in the video above is currently the only controller with (somewhat) weighted keys on the market, though still not mass produced to the numbers required for an off-the-shelf product and still only available to US customers, I believe. The Dutch company Kaduk had their "Respons" controller in the pre-production for years. It should supposedly be available in custom ordered sizes down to 3/4 of standard width and with a much more traditional piano like action than the "touch-weighted" NK5.5. When I looked at the Kaduk website just now it appears they are relocating at least part of the company to Poland. Maybe they are finally getting ready for actual production? The new Respons webpage doesn't mention custom sizes any more and they've cut most of the handfast info on the product https://www.kaduk.nl/flagship-projects/respons. Their "ergonomic interfaces" seem to have been branched off to a new brand called Fairkey but maybe that is intended for acoustic piano actions only. If my memory serves the intended price point for the Respons was roughly 3000€ a few years back. I think it was mentioned by T. Kaduk, owner of the company, in an old PW discussion.

                      You could also check the Pask-piano web site, but there are currently no other digital piano manufacturers mentioned there. https://paskpiano.org/manufacturers/

                      Personally I think a choice of key sizes would be the most meaningful update to the digital piano market, but as for myself I'm not holding my breath any more but decided a few months back to try to build my own controller from scratch. I'm expecting it to be a very time consuming endeavor given all things I still have to learn and design.

                        This youtube vid is a good watch that talks generally about narrower-key pianos. But it's particularly germane because the pianist narrator has an MP11SE, for which he had David Steinbuhler create a DS-6.0 keyboard:

                        He said it was $5000 for the new keyset (on top of the $2-3000 of the MP11SE itself).

                        I think the main issue with the small keys is how much you're going to limit yourself in terms of flexibility in terms of hardware.

                        I can choose from this one or that one and none of the hundreds of others even though they are nicer/cheaper/whatever.

                        Google tells me that the current standard key width has been in use since about 1880 so there's a lot of inertia there.

                        Just like with the folks who occasionally show up on this forum with alternative keyboard layouts, it's going to be difficult to get any traction in the face of the magnitude of standard equipment.

                        --
                        If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!

                          FrankCox I think the main issue with the small keys is how much you're going to limit yourself in terms of flexibility in terms of hardware.

                          Part of me agrees, but I do think that much of the concern is likely unfounded.

                          1) Lots of instruments come in different sizes, so I don't believe that piano is inherently more 'one size fits all'. I get that some instruments are more personal (in that the player carries their own around), where as piano performances are "you play what is there." But...

                          2) Most people who experience these narrower keyboards report very little trouble adapting/adjusting. For some it's a few minutes or a few hours, but most find they can move back and forth between narrow and full-sized fairly easily.

                          3) I suspect a lot of full-size-only-players may retreat to an intuitive (but likely incorrect) mindset of "your brain will get confused by having to adjust," similar to how people who only know one language are often heard saying "how do you process so many more words for multiple languages? Doesn't your brain get too full/confused/mixed-up?" In reality, it just doesn't work that way, talk to anyone who is fluently multilingual, and switching between languages is more or less natural. People can adapt to driving different cars, hop on a skateboard immediately after biking, switch between writing cursive and printing, etc. This is just getting used to a different variation.

                          However, I totally agree that the inertia is against any kind of widespread adoption, and there have been a lot of folks on PW who were actively opposed to the idea that anyone should pursue a narrower keyobard--IMHO, that's unfortunate. I do hope that with more visibility, the existence of narrower-keyboard options gets a bit wider exposure, and regardless of what the rest of us think about its practicality/learnability/etc., those who might find it useful have some resources to pursue it on their own!

                            Something I would find interesting is how an average pianist would adjust to various sized keyboards on the fly, as in sit down to one size, play one song, sit down to another of a different dimension keyboard, and play another song, etc, no rehearsal, no previous time spent, just sitting down cold and playing.

                            I can't speak for others but I might think that a small change might be a non-issue where a significant size difference might not work at all, at least without a little time to adjust. Having never experienced it personally, it's hard to speculate.

                              Bellyman in college, I took a semester of harpsichord lessons. I never went immediately from piano to harpsichord (or vice versa) but often played both in the same day. I’m kind of fuzzy on details now but I remember there was an adjustment period. It wasn’t extreme but it would take some small amount of time to adjust from one size keyboard to another. Probably with more exposure, it would have gotten easier and faster.

                              Yamaha C5X

                                  Bellyman I don't know about average pianist, but here is a video of professional player Linda Gould playing four different sizes in one take:

                                      Cassia in college, I took a semester of harpsichord lessons. I never went immediately from piano to harpsichord (or vice versa) but often played both in the same day. I’m kind of fuzzy on details now but I remember there was an adjustment period. It wasn’t extreme but it would take some small amount of time to adjust from one size keyboard to another. Probably with more exposure, it would have gotten easier and faster.

                                      I've often switched between piano and harpsichord. The keys of most harpsichords are nearly the same width as piano keys. The more important difference is the length: harpsichord keys are usually shorter than piano keys. This takes a bit of getting used to, and makes you understand why baroque keyboard players didn't use their thumbs as much as we pianists do.

                                      The key dip is less than that of a piano, and of course the touch is completely different: there is no dynamic response, either the note sounds or it doesn't.

                                      Despite these differences, I'm able to switch pretty fast between the two instruments, even immediately if necessary.