Sophia Is it possible to lock threads? Usually that takes the heat away, because usually no one will start a NEW topic to continue the fight. So that'll be the end of that. I'm a firm believer in the one two three rule of discipline.

One - a moderator could ask the arguing parties to please play nice with each other.
Two - if that doesn't help, the moderator could mention that continuing the argument would mean a locked thread.
Three - if it still continues, the thread is locked.

Yes, threads can be locked and yes, what you wrote is how we often handled such situations on PW.

Please be aware though that there isn't a one size fits all solution. Sometimes a public warning is a good way to let people know the mods are watching and to keep it nice, other times private warnings need to be sent to avoid putting more fuel in the fire, and sometimes we had to ban people and remove their posts. The approach and the strength of the moderation depends on the situation and the people involved. Mods have to know their community, the history of the posters involved, and have to be objective and sensitive.

I think we already have a great mod team of people who care about the community. I don't know if there was any announcement but currently there is @navindra, @ShiroKuro, @rsl12, and myself. We are part of this community and very much wish it to remain vibrant without the toxicity of of internet discussions in general. Therefore, I think the best thing you can do if you think any post is crossing the line is to simply flag it. We will see your comment, discuss it amongst ourselves, and take appropriate action. Perhaps you might not like that this is going on behind closed doors but please understand that making a public trial of someone is a really bad idea if you want forums to remain a healthy place.

      rogerch Similar to how I believe PianoClack is moderated, I was thinking of a moderation strategy of moving the contentious discussions into new threads inside a new "Debates" forum. People who want to spend their energy arguing with people on the intenet can indulge themselves in the "Debates" forum, while those who would rather not can hang out in the other forums.

      I don't like this idea. To me debates are a normal part of a discussion. There are points on which people disagree and I think it's fine as long as the debate remains civilized and doesn't go too far on an off-topic tangent. If that happens I'm OK stepping in and saying something like "we got your point, now can we go back to talking about pianos".

        Josephine Can I be honest about this? To me downvoting looks a bit like passive aggression.

        I agree. I think downvoting is often just a personal attack. I also wouldn't be happy with downvoted posts that just disappear.

        Often a thread goes off the rails when just a couple of people get more interested in attacking each other personally than adding something useful to the discussion. I don't want to attack these people by downvoting their posts, but I would like a moderator to step in and remind them to calm down and be polite. I'm fine with the approach that BartK just described.

            Okay. This thread is getting toxic. @navindra please delete the posts above from Navindra!

            Kidding of course. As far as reading above dialogue, I do like the idea of empowering the users to reaffirm the intended culture of PT. If most of us are overall aligned on what “respectful” and “courteous” are, then calling people out, in a constructive and respectful manner could work well. Key word “could.”

            That’d mean that we also should be cognizant of how we’d come across as well. The following to me sounds okay: “it appears we’re deviating from the topic” “let’s please refrain from characterizing the other person” basically the tone is more calm and pragmatic.

            I’d be against: “okay this is the third time, HeartKeys, where you did this. Clearly you’re just trying to fan the flames.” “Get off your high horse. You think you know it all, but it’s really making me want to ignore this thread.” These sorts of statements come across reactive, and will only incite the issue, and will get the individual to respond with defensiveness, and respond emotionally as well. And it then becomes that vicious cycle of getting the last word for eternity 🙂

            MRC

            And this function can also be used by people who want to harm this forum. All they have to do is gather 5 people and they can remove every post they want. Maybe you can even create bots to do this.

                Josephine And this function can also be used by people who want to harm this forum. All they have to do is gather 5 people and they can remove every post they want. Maybe you can even create bots to do this.

                I don't know how that would theoretically work here but normally on platforms such as reddit it's the balance of up and down votes is used for deciding whether a post is hidden, so 5 downs wouldn't be enough if you have 100 ups. If you have a large enough community it can be immune to this kind of attack. I don't know if PianoTell is large enough though and I agree with your other concerns of becoming too self-conscious because of down votes. I wouldn't want this to become a popularity contest.

                    BartK

                    Is it possible to add 'creating negative atmosphere' to the options that you can choose from when you flag a post? This way only the mods see it.

                        Josephine Is it possible to add 'creating negative atmosphere' to the options that you can choose from when you flag a post? This way only the mods see it.

                        You can choose Other and write a comment.

                            I think the flagging system should work because in a way it is a form of downvoting that is only visible to the mods.

                            BartK

                            Okay. OT: are you going to watch how the Netherlands is going to win the football match? 😁

                                BartK we already have a great mod team of people who care about the community

                                Oh yes, yep yep yep. I couldn't agree more.

                                And @Josephine Netherlands playing football tonight? Now I know which ones in my family not to disturb because I'd get a lot more than downvoted 😆⚽️🙈

                                    Josephine Okay. OT: are you going to watch how the Netherlands is going to win the football match? 😁

                                    I'm not a big fan of football but it looks like it won't be such an easy win. 😄

                                        BartK

                                        I was joking, but it's not a boring match 🙂

                                          Wow, I mean sorry that I am late to this party. I have been away on holiday for the last week so not in touch with what's been going off webbie stuff. Last I looked about a week ago here was a secure and safe place, friendly and very open forum. This thread was the first to be picked up on catch up missed list unread. I read a good few opening responses and comments and thought what could have possibly changed in just one week. Looking down my list of unread posts it is easy to see what has happened, new to PT are numerous people from other places new here and who permanently seem to live down some pretty long rabbit holes! They are imposing their same random self indulgent arguments and rants on PT. I left PW after quite a long time to the new PC, became quite despondent that the same oracles were posts there and finding out and joining here was like a breath of fresh air. That will teach me to take a few days away! I do hope better people than me can find a way controlling all this. Just my first thoughts mind, so I may have more positive comments as I get back to normal.

                                            Josephine this place would be so much nicer without you.

                                            Never! You were one of the few reasons I kept coming back to another forum despite the less than optimal atmosphere. And in this forum I think you are positively radiant. Your opinions and knowledge are highly valued. I clown around a lot but I can be serious too 💝

                                                Killomiter I think if @navindra can figure out a way to implement a proper Block function (because Ignore is just as ineffective as it was on PW) it would solve quite a lot of problems!

                                                I did see on some Flarum forum that Cybergene had requested this feature a few years ago but then there was no follow-up update, so I'm not sure if anyone implemented it... If this feature is something we could pay someone to code I'd certainly pitch in!! 😉

                                                    twocats
                                                    Yes for a block function. I think I suggested that in the past and the idea was shot down for some reason. But it seems that it would save a lot of trouble, instead of trying more potentially problematic things such as downvotes.

                                                      BartK I think we already have a great mod team of people who care about the community. I don't know if there was any announcement but currently there is @navindra, @ShiroKuro, @rsl12, and myself. We are part of this community and very much wish it to remain vibrant without the toxicity of of internet discussions in general. Therefore, I think the best thing you can do if you think any post is crossing the line is to simply flag it. We will see your comment, discuss it amongst ourselves, and take appropriate action. Perhaps you might not like that this is going on behind closed doors but please understand that making a public trial of someone is a really bad idea if you want forums to remain a healthy place.

                                                      First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has volunteered to moderate. I’ve said it before; I think this is a largely thankless job. Everyone will have different sensibilities about things, and I know that there are times when I probably would make different calls about when things have crossed a line, but overall, I trust the moderators to handle difficult situations, and I agree that moderating decisions should not be aired for general consumption.

                                                      One common issue that occurred on the other forum (and that has started to crop up here) is something that I think is very tricky, and I wonder if people feel there are structural things we can do. This is the issue of people getting on soapboxes— and filling threads with long and multiple posts, which all tend to basically say the same thing in many many words. I will say, for the record, that there are plenty of times when I don’t disagree with the substance of the posts. At times, it can feel like trolling, and at times (and with some particular users) these posts can devolve into personal attacks. Somewhat more commonly, my feeling is that these long and/or repeat message posts can come across as ‘browbeating’ to one or another participant. But I think that most of the time, there’s nothing inherently un-civil or off-topic, and so they’re not really in violation of any rules. My personal approach to these discussions is to respond at most once and to try not to feed the soapbox pontifications. But I think that the soapboxing can have the effect of quashing engagement/participation/diversity of viewpoints. So I’m wondering if this is an area where discussions can be broken off, or if we can develop a framework to deal with this issue.

                                                      Of course, if I’m the only one who feels that this is an issue, I’m not about to get on a soap box about it!