Josephine I see it more as a 'dislike'. I think it could work if used properly. But I understand that if it's misused then it could lead to all unpopular opinions to be quashed, perhaps unfairly. Maybe the flagging system is better then, because you can't flag someone just because you disagree with them.

    Rubens

    Oh, I'm sorry, I edited my post while you posted a reply.

    That's what I'm afraid of indeed, that it's used for unpopular opinions. But maybe when I have another opinion I should just stop reading the thread instead of writing something.

    Josephine I fully support disagreeing opinions. I also support a variety of expression and moods. Diversity is natural and important. Have at it!

    I've personally always enjoyed your writings, Josephine. I can't imagine how your opinions would cross a line. You are clearly very passionate about pianos and you have some serious skills!

    For me, where it becomes more troublesome is personal attacks, insults, deliberate+extended trolling, and that sort of thing. Happy for folks to disagree with me on this though. 🙂

    Josephine Oh gotcha! Personally, I think you're amazing and I'm in awe at what you've accomplished on your own. 🙂

    I understand your feedback now. We won't implement this random idea as it's not even a readily available solution that I know of. We'll simply evolve and course correct as needed. 🙂

    I am all for reasoned debate, even argument and disagreement, so long as it remains civil, and does not descend into personal insults or veiled threats.
    We are all adults, and as such, should be capable of self-moderation at all times. Sometimes, it is better to step away from an argument, just as in real life.
    Maybe a warning to those overstepping the line, followed by a time out for repeated offences, would send a message to the offender, that perhaps this place is not the best fit for them unless they moderate their behaviour here?

    Sophia Is it possible to lock threads? Usually that takes the heat away, because usually no one will start a NEW topic to continue the fight. So that'll be the end of that. I'm a firm believer in the one two three rule of discipline.

    One - a moderator could ask the arguing parties to please play nice with each other.
    Two - if that doesn't help, the moderator could mention that continuing the argument would mean a locked thread.
    Three - if it still continues, the thread is locked.

    Yes, threads can be locked and yes, what you wrote is how we often handled such situations on PW.

    Please be aware though that there isn't a one size fits all solution. Sometimes a public warning is a good way to let people know the mods are watching and to keep it nice, other times private warnings need to be sent to avoid putting more fuel in the fire, and sometimes we had to ban people and remove their posts. The approach and the strength of the moderation depends on the situation and the people involved. Mods have to know their community, the history of the posters involved, and have to be objective and sensitive.

    I think we already have a great mod team of people who care about the community. I don't know if there was any announcement but currently there is @navindra, @ShiroKuro, @rsl12, and myself. We are part of this community and very much wish it to remain vibrant without the toxicity of of internet discussions in general. Therefore, I think the best thing you can do if you think any post is crossing the line is to simply flag it. We will see your comment, discuss it amongst ourselves, and take appropriate action. Perhaps you might not like that this is going on behind closed doors but please understand that making a public trial of someone is a really bad idea if you want forums to remain a healthy place.

      rogerch Similar to how I believe PianoClack is moderated, I was thinking of a moderation strategy of moving the contentious discussions into new threads inside a new "Debates" forum. People who want to spend their energy arguing with people on the intenet can indulge themselves in the "Debates" forum, while those who would rather not can hang out in the other forums.

      I don't like this idea. To me debates are a normal part of a discussion. There are points on which people disagree and I think it's fine as long as the debate remains civilized and doesn't go too far on an off-topic tangent. If that happens I'm OK stepping in and saying something like "we got your point, now can we go back to talking about pianos".

      Josephine Can I be honest about this? To me downvoting looks a bit like passive aggression.

      I agree. I think downvoting is often just a personal attack. I also wouldn't be happy with downvoted posts that just disappear.

      Often a thread goes off the rails when just a couple of people get more interested in attacking each other personally than adding something useful to the discussion. I don't want to attack these people by downvoting their posts, but I would like a moderator to step in and remind them to calm down and be polite. I'm fine with the approach that BartK just described.

        Okay. This thread is getting toxic. @navindra please delete the posts above from Navindra!

        Kidding of course. As far as reading above dialogue, I do like the idea of empowering the users to reaffirm the intended culture of PT. If most of us are overall aligned on what “respectful” and “courteous” are, then calling people out, in a constructive and respectful manner could work well. Key word “could.”

        That’d mean that we also should be cognizant of how we’d come across as well. The following to me sounds okay: “it appears we’re deviating from the topic” “let’s please refrain from characterizing the other person” basically the tone is more calm and pragmatic.

        I’d be against: “okay this is the third time, HeartKeys, where you did this. Clearly you’re just trying to fan the flames.” “Get off your high horse. You think you know it all, but it’s really making me want to ignore this thread.” These sorts of statements come across reactive, and will only incite the issue, and will get the individual to respond with defensiveness, and respond emotionally as well. And it then becomes that vicious cycle of getting the last word for eternity 🙂

        MRC

        And this function can also be used by people who want to harm this forum. All they have to do is gather 5 people and they can remove every post they want. Maybe you can even create bots to do this.

          Josephine And this function can also be used by people who want to harm this forum. All they have to do is gather 5 people and they can remove every post they want. Maybe you can even create bots to do this.

          I don't know how that would theoretically work here but normally on platforms such as reddit it's the balance of up and down votes is used for deciding whether a post is hidden, so 5 downs wouldn't be enough if you have 100 ups. If you have a large enough community it can be immune to this kind of attack. I don't know if PianoTell is large enough though and I agree with your other concerns of becoming too self-conscious because of down votes. I wouldn't want this to become a popularity contest.

            BartK

            Is it possible to add 'creating negative atmosphere' to the options that you can choose from when you flag a post? This way only the mods see it.

              Josephine Is it possible to add 'creating negative atmosphere' to the options that you can choose from when you flag a post? This way only the mods see it.

              You can choose Other and write a comment.

                I think the flagging system should work because in a way it is a form of downvoting that is only visible to the mods.

                BartK

                Okay. OT: are you going to watch how the Netherlands is going to win the football match? 😁

                  BartK we already have a great mod team of people who care about the community

                  Oh yes, yep yep yep. I couldn't agree more.

                  And @Josephine Netherlands playing football tonight? Now I know which ones in my family not to disturb because I'd get a lot more than downvoted 😆⚽️🙈

                    Josephine Okay. OT: are you going to watch how the Netherlands is going to win the football match? 😁

                    I'm not a big fan of football but it looks like it won't be such an easy win. 😄

                      BartK

                      I was joking, but it's not a boring match 🙂

                      Wow, I mean sorry that I am late to this party. I have been away on holiday for the last week so not in touch with what's been going off webbie stuff. Last I looked about a week ago here was a secure and safe place, friendly and very open forum. This thread was the first to be picked up on catch up missed list unread. I read a good few opening responses and comments and thought what could have possibly changed in just one week. Looking down my list of unread posts it is easy to see what has happened, new to PT are numerous people from other places new here and who permanently seem to live down some pretty long rabbit holes! They are imposing their same random self indulgent arguments and rants on PT. I left PW after quite a long time to the new PC, became quite despondent that the same oracles were posts there and finding out and joining here was like a breath of fresh air. That will teach me to take a few days away! I do hope better people than me can find a way controlling all this. Just my first thoughts mind, so I may have more positive comments as I get back to normal.