If you studied at conservatory/university level and switched careers

Rubens · 2024-05-31T21:17:10+00:00

Tell me about yourself! What made you fall in love with the piano to the point that you wanted to make it your career? What made you switch careers? What wou...

twocats

TheBoringPianist I would have taken way more advantage of student pricing for all the world-class concerts in the nearby big city.

Oh gosh, there was so much I could have done! My school had a famous music program and students could attend concerts for free. One time I saw the Tokyo String Quartet for free! But I was too busy studying most of the time 🙁

Here there's special pricing for under-30 or under-35 for multiple organizations and I totally missed the boat on both of those. Oh well, I guess now that I have more money I can pay full price!

ranjit

twocats Apparently he won some major prizes in Poland and perhaps that's how he grew up. But he was super nice to his students and never gave us a hard time about the missed notes

Well, sometimes it's also possible these teachers don't mean literally what they say. I suppose the general gist is largely accurate. You do need to train in a way where you minimize your chances of making mistakes.

twocats

ranjit I don't know, that was clearly his opinion back then for the international piano competition! But also maybe it was also so competitive that everyone else played it just as well but without mistakes, so it was obvious that they would be eliminated.

ranjit

twocats I don't know, that was clearly his opinion back then for the international piano competition! But also maybe it was also so competitive that everyone else played it just as well but without mistakes, so it was obvious that they would be eliminated.

You're right, it would depend on context. A very obvious mistake would probably disqualify you outright so it might have been that. But everyone makes some mistakes, and that's not really the point of playing piano. From what I've seen, higher levels of control and musicality seem to be what audiences really look for. A few mistakes are easily forgiven, if they are noticed in the first place. I've been surprised at what people don't notice, but then again I'm also usually not nitpicking everything when I'm in the audience too!

Rubens

It seems that even in amateur competitions the competitor with the cleanest technique is rarely the top prize winner, at least in the bigger competitions. I'll take myself as an example. I recently posted a recording of a performance of mine that won an amateur online competition last year. Well here's a secret, I actually participated in two amateur competitions with that recording. Yes I did win one (the smaller of the two) but ended up with 2nd prize at the other one, which was the bigger competition, dedicated to Chopin, the one I really wanted to win ☹️.
I'll let you be the judge:

Here is my performance that got me the silver medal:

And here is the big winner.. (Pardon the funny photo, and relax, I made these performances anonymous anyway!):

I think it's clear that I had the cleaner technique. And yet the other guy won, maybe because he was musically better? Or because he chose a flashier piece because he was smarter, in any case good for him!

TLH21

twocats

Depends on the nature of the mistake. Wasn't it Wilhelm Kempf who said something along the lines of the mistake is to play without emotion, not hitting a wrong note?

Timothy

TLH21
I'd always heard it attributed to Beethoven, "To play a wrong note is insignificant. To play without passion is inexcusable."

TLH21

Timothy Sounds plausible.

Stub

ranjit twocats Sorry if this is off topic, but I was suddenly reminded of my high school piano teacher's comment at an international piano competition that started up in my home town. One of the contestants made one mistake and my teacher (who had apparently won many awards in Poland) said that they were out. I thought it was terribly unforgiving but he said that if you're going to be a concert pianist you just can't make mistakes. That comment has stuck with me for a very long time!

I don't agree. I wouldn't really take opinions seriously regarding what it takes to be a concert pianist from anyone other than a concert pianist. Often there is sour grapes or a misplaced understanding of what it takes. Sometimes people are unwilling to accept that they weren't as musical as others, for instance, and insist that it's only a couple of mistakes which separated them from the best.

That said, an obvious memory slip would probably disqualify you from a competition round unless everything else was exceptional. A few smudged notes here and there seem to be okay, as long as it doesn't detract from the music much -- although you might lose a point or two. I'm not an expert, but this is what I see when I look at competitions and who advances vs who doesn't. That said, obviously mistakes will count against you and there is an emphasis on accuracy in competitions.

Edit: also maybe in competitions, but people are not paying attention to wrong notes that much in concerts imo.

In a competition, a wrong note or a few wrong notes can count for a lot because everyone is playing at a high level. It's a competition, after all. In a concert, a few wrong notes in an hour of music is easy to overlook and the audience is not composed of competition jurists. So, yeah, for that international competition, that judgement (elimination) was probably not unusual.

ranjit

Stub In a concert, a few wrong notes in an hour of music is easy to overlook and the audience is not composed of competition jurists.

I saw this pianist recently who was a competition winner, who made tons of mistakes in the coda of the first Chopin Ballade. The audience still really loved it and barely noticed. Like, he easily got several dozen wrong notes in there if you were to count, but he kept it going and kept it exciting. Even a more serious concert audience doesn't mind. Look at how many mistakes Horowitz makes, sometimes his performances are simply riddled with errors. That's what I guess I mean.

But such a thing might definitely be life or death in a competition.

Stub

Ranjit, I'll bet they could play error-free or very nearly so when they prepared for the concert. It's hard to imagine a professional taking a piece public without having gotten all the notes right when preparing the piece for a concert. In a concert, things happen but I can't imagine the pianist being okay with it and shrugging it off.

twocats

Stub Ranjit, I'll bet they could play error-free or very nearly so when they prepared for the concert.

I agree.

Especially when performers get older and aren't at their peak anymore. Bad days happen, health issues happen (I saw Andre Watts a couple of years ago and he was clearly not playing as well as he used to; RIP), age happens... people forgive these things. But if you haven't previously proven yourself to the public it's a different situation.

ranjit

Stub Ranjit, I'll bet they could play error-free or very nearly so when they prepared for the concert. It's hard to imagine a professional taking a piece public without having gotten all the notes right when preparing the piece for a concert. In a concert, things happen but I can't imagine the pianist being okay with it and shrugging it off.

I'm sure they could play error-free during their preparation, but I was referring to playing error-free during the concert. Again, we're not talking about major mistakes. Watch Horowitz perform, he makes many mistakes but as long as the musical effect is there he shrugs it off.

This video isn't meant to be taken seriously, but you can see the kinds of smudges or mistakes that I'm talking about:

twocats

twocats Especially when performers get older and aren't at their peak anymore. Bad days happen, health issues happen (I saw Andre Watts a couple of years ago and he was clearly not playing as well as he used to; RIP), age happens... people forgive these things. But if you haven't previously proven yourself to the public it's a different situation.

@ranjit don't know if you saw my comment, but I think this applies to your Horowitz example.

Stub

I'm not sure what happened with my thread above--it reads deleted, but it's still there. I was having trouble with my internet connection, so maybe it was that. Anyway, that was my post.

[deleted]
3 hours ago

Ranjit, I'll bet they could play error-free or very nearly so when they prepared for the concert. It's hard to imagine a professional taking a piece public without having gotten all the notes right when preparing the piece for a concert. In a concert, things happen but I can't imagine the pianist being okay with it and shrugging it off.

twocats

Stub I'm not sure what happened with my thread above--it reads deleted, but it's still there.

It's a known bug (apparently if you let the page sit for too long?). The post isn't deleted but it says your username is. A page refresh usually fixes it!

ranjit

twocats don't know if you saw my comment, but I think this applies to your Horowitz example.

Hmm, I guess what I'm saying is that there's a point of diminishing returns. All pianists must aim to have at least something like 98% accuracy. But after that point, high level musicality will have more impact and be more satisfying than getting it to 99.9%. And an audience would likely not care, imo, unless it was made up of score-clutching elitists tallying every last wrong note. (It would also matter for competitions, of course.) I do believe that there are fundamentally different levels of musicality, which are dependent on touch, control, and the like, and people pay more attention to those. It is why a great pianist sounds like a great pianist after 5 seconds of playing.

twocats

ranjit I don't think anyone is arguing that musicality isn't more important than perfect accuracy.

But I have to say that I would expect a professional touring musician in their prime to have a clean performance except on rare occasions. And I expect high level musicality as a baseline, otherwise there's really no point in paying for a ticket.

Rubens

The better the musician, the more they can afford to make mistakes and still sound good. And then there was Horowitz, whose extra notes added to the excitement.

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