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thepianoplayer416 ...I met Suzuki & Yamaha people...
Is it just me who is thinking about bikers?
Video: what separates intermediate from beginner pianists
Pallas I was married to a guy who could play the electric guitar in a band really, really well.
A guitarists I knew personally played in a well respected local band. If we were at a jam session, he'd just roll in, borrow someones guitar, and play the most rock solid timing and chord changes (using fairly basic chords) and leave everyone with their mouths open. He was a great guitarist being able to play the basics so well. He didn't need five thousand jazz chords to shine.
Sydney Australia
Retired part-time piano technician
JohnCW Ok, so this is what she said, probably in a Q&A video? (I checked out her channel and watched a Q&A video, but this topic wasn't addressed in that.)
In this case, I assume she can read and write sheet music well, but she claims she can't sight-read because she has higher standards for what sight-reading means.
WieWaldi (I checked out her channel and watched a Q&A video, but this topic wasn't addressed in that.)
I suggest you listen to the video again where at the 1:54 mark she says "I don't know how to read sheet music"? That's petty clear to me.
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Sydney Australia
Retired part-time piano technician
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One nice thing about Katherine's situation is - if she truly doesn't know how to read sheet music at all right now - not even a tiny bit, then there's definitely nothing to stop her from learning at any time. Her level of intellect would see her reading sheet music very well relatively quickly.
I reckon she probably does know a little bit -- as in A, B, C etc. The very basics at least. On the other hand, if she says she doesn't know how to read sheet music, then we can definitely assume zero experience. Whatever is the case - it's clear that she has the potential to become a good music reader after a relatively short time, even with assumed zero sheet reading experience.
She gave a nice note in the vid, about feeling -- feeling the music. Get as best as we can what we feel into the music, to the best of what abilities we have at this/the time. And I can understand what she says about doing something slightly different, but also happy with, that is different from what others play. Totally understanding of it. I'm sort of like that too. My goal/aim isn't to modify/alter existing music to have somebody say 'it is different and nice'. I just focus on making it different for me (myself) to say it's different and nice. It looks like Katherine is probably like that too. She says it. Being happy with what is generated - first and foremost.
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SouthPark there's definitely nothing to stop her from learning at any time
I don't know the lady in question so my remarks are generic, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. There is literally no argument to be made against it. I mean I have never in my life met a person who said they regretted learning to read or write (whether ABC or sheet music). It's never too late... and it wouldn't take away from getting world class skills or conveying the emotion of the pieces either. If anything, it would enhance it even further.
SouthPark There are 2 ways to reproduce a piece of music: by ear or by the score. People who had music training with a teacher would be able to read... especially when the music is Classical.
Historically standard music notations was invented in Italy a few hundred years ago. Before that nobody came up with an accurate way to record music on paper so a long of pieces were passed from person to person by ear. Some people assumed that standard notations has always been the preferred way to learn music. Many Pop musicians don't read or write in standard notations.
People who had instructions from a teacher would know how to read. The rest depends. Some are keen on learning notations but not all. Even some who play Classical pieces may be using synthesia (falling rectangles) or other ways to learn pieces.
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thepianoplayer416 There are 2 ways to reproduce a piece of music: by ear or by the score. People who had music training with a teacher would be able to read... especially when the music is Classical.
True. Reproducing music - or at least the 'essence' of the music can certainly be done by listening. Some people can really do it very well - as in generate the gist of it. For accurate note-by-note -- yes indeed, the written score at least allows the original (source) sequence to be properly preserved. These days - where recordings are available (although in many cases, there are no original source recordings as they didn't have the tech back in the oldest days), the combination of score plus recordings has its benefits, because that information conveys even how somebody (eg. the author) played it - in terms of timing, nuances, rubato etc. Timbre and other features might not be exactly the same though of course - as each instrument and environment etc is different.
These days - another combination - is eg. synthesia plus audio recording, which in many selected cases can be effective, especially when combined with audio recording of how the music should sound, and possibly when the students are then also taught intervals, finger sequences (or how to work out workable ones on their own in pieces and/or scales and/or arpegg scales etc), relative pitch training, chord work, keys (ie. key signature) and other elements (eg. the circle of fifth sequences - which actually has short-cut application methods for very practical usage, and can become ingrained into people - the more they just use it, and 2-5-1 etc techniques etc) --- that's if students want to get into these other areas, which can open the door to areas of some musical freedom.
Of course, it's a broad area - but once enough knowledge is accumulated, then people will automatically sense some sort of own musical freedom, and also they can (if they want) learn more and develop more - such as checking out the various other sorts of scales out there, and various music genre, composition counterpoint work etc. There's enough content all together to keep people interested and fascinated in playing piano and making music to last 'forever'.
But back to music score. For some music - where a huge lot is going on, and if somebody wants to be able to view the 'notes' or patterns in a 'most efficient' way (provided that they have been taught to read the symbols relatively effectively and efficiently), then 'traditional' type of notation - music score sheet will really be the most efficient, especially for very 'busy' type music - with a heap going on in it -- lots of notes happening all the time etc.
But when it comes to debate/chats about eg. score versus synthesia etc, I just know that people that get into synthesia can always (or also) get into score reading if they want. What synthesia can do for many people is to get 'foot-in-door'. Get them into piano and music in one way. And from there, they can choose to learn to read music etc if they want.
As for Katherine, as we can see - not knowing how to read score sheets still allows people to generate amazing music of the sorts that they like. She expands/grows in a particular direction (or directions), and there is certainly nothing stopping her from expanding in other directions too if she wants to. But it looks like she has developed adequately and is still developing - and having fun with the piano and music, which is absolutely excellent.
JohnCW I've watched some of her arrangements. They're great. It's amazing that one can reach that level of proficiency by ear. I guess this is common in some genres. To me, it feels like hard mode. Because I find reading the notation is the easiest part. Executing it is hard! And transcribing by ear is impossible 
That QA is also interesting. At the end she recommended learning music theory and writing sheet music. Her husband also made her a little theory book and software to help They're cute.
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That's a very substantial point in music, or essence of music. When there becomes an adequate amount of understanding in how music or notes etc can fit together, and some adequate creativity ... the amount of music or variations etc becomes seemingly endless. The possibilities. That ... plus learning about the various aspects of music is one way of keeping ourselves occupied and happy for 'eternity'.
Even without composition etc, the amount of music out there to be played from score/script and learned is pretty much limitless too. Music ... is a paradise.
People who play by the score tend to be very precise playing the notes as printed on the page. Even Pop songs that are written with the piano as the main instrument like those by Elton John, Billy Joel, John Lennon, there is room for improvisation. Getting a good sound is more important than reproducing notes exactly especially when playing off a lead sheet. A C-chord can be played as CEG, EGC or GCE. Instead of playing the way the composer intended as a reproduction of the original, you're creating your original arrangement.
Found an old performance of Billy Joel "Piano Man". It was in Tokyo Japan. Before getting into the song, he improvised the melody of the old Japanese Pop song "Sukiyaki" as intro.
How I know that I am intermediate - early intermediate, but still, intermediate:
My pile of pieces that are too easy is growing.
I listen to a piece and I like it, I look at the score and I think: Yes, I can play this. Then I sit at my piano, and start to play, and realise, this is too easy for me. This never happened when I still was a beginner! 
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
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Beginners who have a teacher tend to rely on outside help more. Many intermediate players would start to track their progress and be conscious their strengths & weaknesses.
Recently I showed a man a recording made 7 years ago of an old song from the 1940s. There is a big jump in the piece repeated a few times… from the melody to chords. No rest before the jump so need to land on the right notes immediately. 7 years ago I wouldn’t be playing many pieces with jumps but at least 1 piece was played successfully. The pieces you play may not get more difficult than the most difficult piece you tried but you’ll be playing more pieces at the same level.
Be aware of your mistakes and fix them like counting issues and missing sharps & flats. Other issues related to techniques depends. Executing a big jump, controlling dynamics, connecting phrases we may not be able to do yet.
Part of fixing mistakes is developing a good ear. This means not to take sheet music at face value even if we’re good readers. Over the years I downloaded pieces and would find spots that doesn’t sound right. 1 piece missing a flat on the D, another missing a flat on the B. Good readers would play the mistakes as is. Someone like me would find a recording online and hear the spots that don’t sound right. My weakness is reading. Being a good listener compensates my reading.
thepianoplayer416 Part of fixing mistakes is developing a good ear. This means not to take sheet music at face value even if we’re good readers. Over the years I downloaded pieces and would find spots that doesn’t sound right. 1 piece missing a flat on the D, another missing a flat on the B. Good readers would play the mistakes as is. Someone like me would find a recording online and hear the spots that don’t sound right. My weakness is reading. Being a good listener compensates my reading.
Curious. How do you know the score is incorrect? I have seen MuseScore scores someone has done of pieces written by well-known composers and they have a few incorrect notes, but I know that because I can compare the piece with published scores on IMSLP, for example. Sometimes our ears tell us to correct a dissonance we hear, but that's not what the composer wants us to do.
Stub As a MuseScore user myself, I find that scores notated by others have errors. After hearing at least 1 version of the score, you pick out wrong notes easily.
The last piece I downloaded from MuseScore was a piano arrangement of a singing piece. The original probably has dynamic markings on top of the staff and the lyrics under the staff which is acceptable. A piano score without the lyrics having dynamic markings on top looks odd.
Don't assume a download from IMSLP is free of mistakes. I downloaded a copy of Bach Goldberg Variations. In mvt 1 (Aria) there was 1 bar with half a beat too many. Counted a few times and then entered the bar into MuseScore to check if it was my counting mustake. Still came out as half a beat too many. An IMSLP score can came from a bad photoopy. The last one downloaded has notes that are unclear with fade circles. Since the piece has repetitions you can tell by comparing sections that sound the same or similar but with some notes unclear.
The discrepancies over sharps & flats: A piece you know well you can hear if a note sounds wrong. A pieces that was originally for singing arranged for piano there are different versions. You find note differences between versions as long as an arrangement sounds ok.
The last piece with a missing flat on the B came from an orchestral score with a piano part. Checked the note with violin I from the strings instruments above (violin I, II, viola & cello). Bar 149 Vln 1 says Bb, the piano part says B so have to assume 1 of them is not right. The piano part you can kind of tell the B is missing a flat. Bar 148 before has a flat in front of the B. Bar 150 has a natural in front of the B. Bar 149 between the 2 has nothing (nothing in the key signature) means the note is a B. The bar after has a natural as reminder so you assume the B in bar 149 with nothing next to it has a missing flat.
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Take some of the most played popular piano arrangements, let's say The Beatles. Predominantly an electric guitar band. Do people really believe that Lennon and Machartney sat down and accurately transcribed what they finally recorded into 100 percent piano sheet music. Someone not even in the band likely did this.
And is this the recorded version, or what they would play in a live performance. I'm assuming most people are aware that few bands play a live version identical to what they produce in a recording studio. And if people want to reproduce someone's live performance Which nights performance. Many musicians vary what they play every night. Elton John is well known for this. And why wouldn't have musicians done this also 200 years ago.
Sydney Australia
Retired part-time piano technician
4 days later
thepianoplayer416 Also MuseScore user/editor here. Very often I find many arrangements of the same piece, and often none of those is "perfect". I can hear in every one a mistake, but a different mistake.
Then I get the best version and compare the mistake-section to the other versions. There is a good chance that at least one of the others noted that section correct. And then I correct my downloaded version.
Finally I adapt the staff-sizes and make line- and page-breaks to fill up the pages evenly.
I hate it, if a score has 5 lines on page one and 3 lines on page two. Or if measures are crammed, but then there is empty space somewhere else, or the last measure is only one note for an entire staff line.
To get a bit back on topic:
I found it much easier to discover mistakes in the score as a beginner than as an intermediate, because most beginners' pieces have much simpler harmonies.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...