I thought it would be nice to upgrade my piano. Right now I have a VPC-1 that I use together with Pianoteq, and I was hoping for a lighter touch, so I could play faster, or, for a more delicate pianissimo, or a richer sound.

The visit didn't start well. The salesman had never heard about VPC-1 (I didn't know that that was even possible amongst piano salespersons) and then he suggested a slab for 4-500 euros. I was quite shocked, but he insisted that they very well could have better action than the VPC-1.

Then I played on a couple of pianos, all of them so much more beautiful than the VPC-1, black and shiny. And they were all so hard to play on. Playing fast was harder, not easier, and when I tried to play pianissimo it was just silent. And the sound! The sound was not at all better, richer, deeper than what I am used to.

When we left the shop, I was elated and felt a new love for my VPC-1 with Pianoteq. If only the pedals were better. After four years, they are on the verge of breaking down and I am rather reluctant to buy another set of miserable Fatar pedals. But, this is of course nothing, compared to buying a whole new digital piano.

*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

    Animisha Have you looked into pedal from other manufacturers that can plug into the computer via USB directly or with some kind of converter? Like discussed here.

        If I understand your post correctly you have a digital piano and were testing acoustic pianos at the store. You have to understand that adjusting to the touch of an acoustic piano after playing basically only on a digital requires some time, maybe even several hours or days. Also, adjusting to the tone of an acoustic versus whatever you're used to on your digital requires time. It's even possible that the acoustic pianos you tried were not tuned well and that's why you didn't like the tone. It's also not true that having a very light action is necessarily good or makes it easier to play faster. If things were that simple, acoustic and digital piano makers would all make their actions very light.

        Your difficulty playing pp on the acoustic piano could be a problem with your technique(Playing very softly while avoiding ghost notes Is quite an advanced technical issue), or your technique might be fine but you're just not used to the acoustic piano, or the piano might be poorly regulated, or some other factor. But this does not mean you should necessarily reject acoustic pianos out of hand. When I was accompanying the rehearsals of some musical I played almost exclusively on acoustic pianos. The rehearsal used a digital and it took me about an hour to be able to adjust to the piano despite decades of experience on various instruments

        None of the above means keeping and enjoying your present digital piano is not a reasonable or good option. But if you're looking for an improvement in touch and/or tone you need to spend more time trying each piano out and not make such a quick judgment about whether you like a particular piano. Even someone going from one digital piano to another digital piano or from one acoustic piano to a different acoustic piano usually requires some time to adjust to the different feel of the action.

          iternabe That sounds like a good idea, as it will buy time to look at different accoustic pianos - they are beautiful but can be expensive so it's not a decision to be taken lightly.

          Animisha Do you have room for two pianos? Are you considering an upright or perhaps a baby grand? There are so many options.

          I can imagine that playing an acoustic would probably require a different technique as the keys are probably quite weighty compared to a DP - maybe that's why you found that your playing was slower on the acoustic? The DP could be better for playing quietly (volume low/headphones) when you're learning new pieces and don't want to disturb other people, while the acoustic could be used for playing pieces you've already mastered - I imagine you could really make them sing on an acoustic.

          "Don't let's ask for the moon, we have the stars." (Final line from Now,Voyager, 1942)

                Animisha a slab for 4-500 euros

                From this comment, I’m assuming that what the salesman showed you were all digital pianos, is that correct?

                    Animisha The salesman had never heard about VPC-1 (I didn't know that that was even possible amongst piano salespersons)

                    I have found this actually to be the norm, versus the exception! I don’t recall any dealer I went to who knows about VPC1 (which is my current MIDI controller piano)

                      Animisha But, this is of course nothing, compared to buying a whole new digital piano.

                      It sounds like Animisha was looking at another digital piano, not an upright.

                          iternabe Have you looked into pedal from other manufacturers that can plug into the computer via USB directly or with some kind of converter? Like discussed here.

                          Yes, I did but I'm afraid to buy a MIDI Expression device (I don't even know what that is) and a Roland triple pedal only to find out that I can't get it to work smoothly.

                          pianoloverus you have a digital piano and were testing acoustic pianos at the store -
                          Nightowl

                          No, I wanted to have a better digital piano. One of the pianos I played was the Yamaha CSP-295. I understand that there would be a period of adjustment, but there was nothing that felt like any improvement at all!

                          twocats It sounds like Animisha was looking at another digital piano, not an upright.

                          Exactly. I did play a very short time on an acoustic piano with a silent system, but it was so loud! I already have hearing aids and I don't want to further deteriorate my ears, nor torment my neighbours, with an acoustic piano.

                          ShiroKuro From this comment, I’m assuming that what the salesman showed you were all digital pianos, is that correct?

                          I did not even deign to cast a look at those slabs. 😃

                          *
                          ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                      I also visited a piano shop last week with the intention of auditioning a Kawai CA901 digital and I have to say was very impressed. The action played almost identically to one of Kawai's GL grand pianos and the wooden soundboard attached at the rear contributed to some wonderful sounds. Played at reasonable volume vibrations could be felt from the lower keys.

                                      If I decide to purchase this digital I will keep my acoustic upright piano.

                                      As I exited the shop I couldn't resist having a little look at the acoustic grands with the inevitable result that I am now thinking over the option of trading the upright for a baby grand. Heart says acoustic baby grand, head says stick with the upright and have the additional digital which has a faster action and doesn't need tuning.

                                        Animisha . I understand that there would be a period of adjustment, but there was nothing that felt like any improvement at all!

                                        Even going from one digital to another there can be a period of adjustment so that trying a digital for only a few minutes may not be enough of a test. Was the instrument where you couldn't play very softly on it a digital or an acoustic?

                                            I am sorry to hear about your experience. Sales person do not always have the depth of knowledge of the things they sell. And this is not limited to digital piano but many other things as well.

                                            My own research led me to believe in slab form it's really hard to beat the wood action of Kawai in terms of overall feel and response. And people's search to improve one certain aspect (e.g. repeat speed) often leads to other actions with different compromise. Hybrid action is better but the price step up is a leap, too.

                                            It's amazing your VPC1 is going strong for 4 years. Have you encountered any of the common problem that needs service? When I looked at the new-to-me GF action, I realized these things probably do need some maintenance to stay in top shape, and they are designed to be serviced more like acoustic actions. Maybe some simple cleaning of the capstan, verifying slip tapes remain in place, and maybe lubricating the key bushings is all you need to get the action to play faster or softer?

                                            The ability to play pianissimo more easy and reliably is on my thoughts, too. VPC1 being a MIDI controller is supposed to be even better at that than my MP11SE. I know you must have experimented with the velocity curve in Pianoteq. If one has no concern about translating technique directly to acoustic piano, then I think tweaking velocity curve is probably a viable solution to make soft playing a little easier. On that note, I would like to hear from people who do play acoustic piano tell us about whether there is a "dead zone" in the soft touch where if one press the key with low enough velocity the hammer will not strike thus no sound is produced.

                                              iternabe On that note, I would like to hear from people who do play acoustic piano tell us about whether there is a "dead zone" in the soft touch where if one press the key with low enough velocity the hammer will not strike thus no sound is produced.

                                              Yes, on an acoustic piano pressing a key very slowly results in insufficient release velocity for the hammer to hit the strings. On a piano that is well regulated this effect is consistent across the keys which facilitates pianissimo playing.

                                                  keff auditioning a Kawai CA901 digital and I have to say was very impressed.

                                                  How nice! My shop was a Yamaha one - they had no Kawais at all - so I couldn't compare with more expensive Kawais.

                                                  pianoloverus Was the instrument where you couldn't play very softly on it a digital or an acoustic?

                                                  Digital. But of course, that would just have been a matter of getting used to it.

                                                  *
                                                  ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                                      iternabe It's amazing your VPC1 is going strong for 4 years. Have you encountered any of the common problem that needs service?

                                                      Is it? No, I have never needed any service. And that is very fortunate, because I would have no idea about who to call.

                                                      iternabe tweaking velocity curve is probably a viable solution to make soft playing a little easier.

                                                      I have actually increased output volume to make the action a bit lighter.

                                                      iternabe On that note, I would like to hear from people who do play acoustic piano tell us about whether there is a "dead zone" in the soft touch where if one press the key with low enough velocity the hammer will not strike thus no sound is produced.

                                                      Actually, I have always assumed that basically every piano, acoustic or digital, has this "dead zone" as you call it. Playing without making a sound was part of the standard exercises my previous piano teacher sometimes gave me, for instance when that note is routinely played too loudly.

                                                      *
                                                      ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                                              iternabe I would like to hear from people who do play acoustic piano tell us about whether there is a "dead zone" in the soft touch where if one press the key with low enough velocity the hammer will not strike thus no sound is produced.

                                                              If one presses the key too slowly on an acoustic, the hammer will not strike the string and no sound is produced. This is commonly called playing a ghost note. Avoiding ghost notes on an acoustic is not an elementary technical skill. There have been quite a few threads on piano world about the proper technique for playing very softly and some excellent youtube videos on the same topic. Even if one has the necessary technical skill, if a an acoustic is in poor regulation that can make the playing very softly difficult also.

                                                                  Animisha Is it? No, I have never needed any service. And that is very fortunate, because I would have no idea about who to call.

                                                                  I know the internet tend to amplify (sometimes rare) issues because people who are happy with what they have do not usually speak up. The infamous slip tape caused sticky key problem seem to be real to those unfortunate. Some even report the problem comes back after a couple of years or even less. Although unable to get accurate statistics on rate of occurrence, I do find that the widely discussed DIY repair procedures makes me less worried about getting the action.

                                                                  As you have problem seen in my other post, I have taken the cover off and looked at the action. The official recommendation, of course, would be to find a Kawai certified technician for service. However, my impression is a competent acoustic piano tuner should have no problem servicing the GF action, because the mechanical parts of the key stick are almost identical, while the hammer mechanism being much simpler. The electronics don't need service - should they fail you don't repair you replace. What would be helpful is to have a factory service manual on hand that has specifications on how to regulate the action.

                                                                  I myself have been watching piano tuner videos to learn the proper technique and material to lubricate the pins and bushings, and adjust key height and key dip. I also think if you can't find a piano tuner who is willing to work on it, then just someone who is handy, careful, and meticulous would be more than capable to do the service.