pianoloverus He has many interesting and excellent ideas but I think this one would apply to only a small number of pieces and is also something that only super advanced conservatory graduate students should be concerned about.
Yes, it's very advanced but I think it opens up so many possibilities for tone production! I may not be an advanced conservatory student but I definitely plan to integrate this technique into my playing when I feel that it's appropriate. Like the pulsing beats in the first page of Ballade 1. The minute I saw this video I was like "that's what it needs!". I will have to try it and see how it sounds though.
pianoloverus I'm also not convinced that his idea for using it on the etude makes an improvement over the way it's normally played.
I disagree, I think it sounded amazing! Although I do think he overheld the damper pedal.
I much prefer the official name of the left-most pedal, i.e., the una corda pedal, to the use of the name "soft pedal," mostly because, yes, that pedal can make the sound softer, but that's not all it does; it changes not just loudness (because fewer strings are being struck), but also tone and effect (change in the harmonics due to altered interactions amongst the strings). Generally if I want a quieter sound I will play more p. If I were to use the una corda pedal, it would be to bring out additional nuances. Maybe "mood pedal" would be a more descriptive name?
Stub I much prefer the official name of the left-most pedal, i.e., the una corda pedal, to the use of the name "soft pedal," mostly because, yes, that pedal can make the sound softer, but that's not all it does; it changes not just loudness (because fewer strings are being struck), but also tone and effect (change in the harmonics due to altered interactions amongst the strings).
I think a lot of students practice on uprights so there is no distinction, but I hope their teachers are explaining the difference! Mine never did though, or maybe I just don't remember.
twocats I think a lot of students practice on uprights so there is no distinction, but I hope their teachers are explaining the difference! Mine never did though, or maybe I just don't remember.
Hmmm. On acoustics it's an una corda pedal; on uprights a bona fide "soft" pedal. I don't play on uprights all that often, and when I do it's in practice rooms where the uprights are probably old enough and played out enough to have come off Noah's Ark. I don't think I ever used the "soft" pedal.
Stub On acoustics it's an una corda pedal; on uprights a bona fide "soft" pedal.
Just to clarify, on acoustic grands. Because uprights are acoustic, too
I grew up playing on an upright, guessing it was a Yamaha U1. None of the families we knew owned a grand piano. I can't even remember for sure if my teacher had one. I am visualizing a basement room with two uprights side by side, but I think after my teacher moved to a different house she did have a grand piano in her living room. I don't think the una corda pedal was a part of my education back then, I'm only starting to use it recently and to really think about where it enhances the music.
My main problem with this is that you need to have a piano that is constructed that way. I don't know whether such a piano also has to be well maintained for it to work. I suspect that my DP, even though a hybrid and constructed to emulate a grand piano, may not have those capabilities.
keystring I think you’re probably right. Unless they’ve got separate sound samples for the UC pedal, I don’t think you really get the change in color. On my Clavinova, there is absolutely no point in using the ‘UC pedal’ because it’s not really a ‘UC’ pedal but just softens things slightly. It’s honestly more effective to just play softer with the hands—you have more control.
Sgisela But I’d be interested to hear from you how it goes, as you implement it.
I tried it out! It is definitely a skill that needs a lot more practice as my right foot is now getting confused about what to do, and I would only recommend adding this once you're already very comfortable with the piece. It really allows you to add color and to help separate the melody from the accompaniment so that they are more distinct.
These are iPad recordings and I don't know how evident the change is, but it is very obvious in person and I love it! If I could get used to the Bluetooth foot pedal, I figure I can learn how to apply strategic una corda as well.
Chopin "Aeolian Harp" Etude (second try of "surgical pedal" is better):
I don't think Chiu is the first person to use what he calls surgical shift pedal technique although he may be the first to make a video about it. I think it probably has limited, probably very limited use in an appropriate way and he might even say that also.
Of course the most standard way the left pedal is used is in some section of music by applying it to both hands and not the way Chiu discusses it in this video. I think the fact that when composers notate use of the left pedal it's almost always for both hands at once means that that's generally the best or most appropriate way to use the left pedal most of the time. Does anyone know of a specific example for a composer notated use of the left pedal in a surgical way? Of course it's possible that some excellent pianists use the type of surgical pedaling Chiu discusses fairly frequently but I have no idea whether that's the case.
In the hundred plus live master classes I've heard and others I've watched online, and remember those are usually with very advanced conservatory level students, not only have I never heard any of the teachers discuss surgical pedaling, I've never or almost never heard them talk about use of the left or middle pedal. I have heard them talk about use of the right pedal and I think correct use of that in a variety of ways is far more important in use of the left or middle pedal.
pianoloverus I'm sure that's Chiu's own name for this technique. If you don't find value in it, you don't have to use it.
Of course it should be used judiciously and not just in every piece willy nilly, but I think it greatly enhances how I can tonally separate the pulsing beats in the first page of Ballade 1.
Also I did see Wu Han use a lot of una corda with quick pedal lifts when she played an all Russian cello-piano program here with David Finckel a couple of weeks ago.
twocats I did think the second time you played the passage it sounded better but just because the pulsating chords were softer. I couldn't hear any change in the sound other than a decrease in volume. It may be that hearing any change other than the change in volume is very hard when it's only occurring on two notes so before you can hear it it's over. I know by my personal experience that playing very softly but avoiding ghost notes is not easy but I think some teachers would say that you should try and play those pulsating chords more softly without use of the left pedal Have you tried that? I'm not saying that I disagree with using the Left pedal just to make it easier to play softly and my guess is some great professional pianist use it that way at least occasionally.
twocats Of course it should be used judiciously and not just in every piece willy nilly, but I think it greatly enhances how I can tonally separate the pulsing beats in the first page of Ballade 1.
Other than playing the pulsating beats more softly I think it's definitely open to debate whether there should be any other change in the color that the left pedal automatically adds. I could certainly be wrong, but my guess is that most top professional pianist simply play the pulsating chords softer but don't add the left pedal.
pianoloverus I couldn't hear any change in the sound other than a decrease in volume.
My iPad doesn't have a good microphone so you won't hear all the nuances anyway. It was quieter but also had less clarity in the tone so that it sounded very far away.
Personal choice, but I liked it much better that way.
twocats My iPad doesn't have a good microphone so you won't hear all the nuances anyway. It was quieter but also had less clarity in the tone so that it sounded very far away.
Personal choice, but I liked it much better that way.
In that case, I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to do it. If you thought the pulsating chord should be played fortissimo ha ha, then that would be in the unreasonable category but the tonal change with the left pedal on just two chords Is small enough that I don't think anyone could say doing it that way is wrong. I started a thread about this surgical pedaling with the left pedal on piano world and it may be interesting to hear what pianists there say about it.
Sgiselakeystring I think you’re probably right. Unless they’ve got separate sound samples for the UC pedal, I don’t think you really get the change in color.
Thank you. In this case it is of intellectual interest, and maybe a music appreciation one if we hear it being done. But if we don't have an instrument that has the means for doing this (that kind of pedal plus well maintained) then I don't see much use in trying to work with it.
Not quite the same thing but on a piece I was doing, I was advised against using the middle pedal, because not all pianos have that feature, so if you practise that way, then end up on a piano that doesn't have it, will you be able to switch your manner of playing such passages on the spot?
pianoloverus I started a thread about this surgical pedaling with the left pedal on piano world and it may be interesting to hear what pianists there say about it.
Please share if you hear anything interesting!
keystring But if we don't have an instrument that has the means for doing this (that kind of pedal plus well maintained) then I don't see much use in trying to work with it.
I agree, I don't think it's useful for you to try this given your piano. I'm pretty sure I'll only be "performing" (in quotes because most opportunities are quite casual) on grands and I will also have to see what the una corda sounds like and if it's not working on that piano to create the effect that I want, then I wouldn't do it. I'll just have to see if it makes sense!
twocats thanks for sharing the videos. I think this is likely something that gets a little lost in the recording. I had a hard time hearing the effect on the etude — perhaps because it’s so fast? I could hear the difference in color more in the ballade; it’s definitely different. I quite liked it without the UC pedal, but I also think the choice to use the UC pedal for those pulsing notes made sense.
Sgisela I had a hard time hearing the effect on the etude — perhaps because it’s so fast?
It makes it just a little sweeter, I think. It was much more evident in his video, to my ears. I really don't like renditions that are too loud and "brilliant" (my favorite is this recording by Rubinstein). I don't think I'd use the una corda in this Etude if I go back to learning it (for one thing, it's too complicated!), but I think it's a good demonstration of the "surgical" aspect of the pedaling and having to be very precise to get the intended effect.
I do think I will use it in the Ballade going forward though! I really did think "this is exactly what it needs" after I watched his video
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