Pallas The first tip is to keep going when you feel frustrated.

Pallas Reflecting on feelings of frustration, realizing you need help to solve a problem, and asking for help is the very best use of resources.

I really agree with you Pallas!

Now of course this is just a quick tip from Molly, but I would say: when you feel frustrated, sit down, have a cup of coffee or tea, (or a glass of water) and do some thinking. What is the source of your frustration? Is the piece that you work with too difficult for you? Have you started to fall back into less efficient practice habits? Are you mentally overloaded by your job, your family and would you need a break from the piano?

After all, most of us are not pros, and sometimes it is better not to practise like a pro, but just like a happy amateur.

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      10 days later

      I am going through our video again - and I now realise there is one way in which I differ from Molly's teachings.

      The question in the video was: "What if each small spot is 90% success rate, but when you put the whole piece together each time you fail in different places, so that the total success rate is 50%?"
      Molly's answer is: "First of all, you need to get a 100% success rate for each spot, otherwise you'll never be solid in the whole entire thing."

      So far, I am totally with her.

      But to fix the problem, she recommends lots of random practice, particularly "performance testing using random practice methods".

      And for me, that doesn't work.
      If I can play the spots correctly, but I make mistakes in playing through, one of the main causes is that I don't have the piece connected well enough in my head. It is as if I every time need to get into the right track, and sooner or later I miss a track. And yes, I do vary my sections. They can be shorter or longer, and the transitions can be at the beginning, middle or end of a section.

      For me, instead of more random section practice, I need to play through - particularly "performance testing - play through". Then I make a notice of the mistakes that I make, or, the mistakes that I almost made, fix them, and once again, a "performance testing - play through".

      I do this "performance testing - play through" also in the early stages, when I still play a piece at a very slow tempo. In this way, I learn what comes next on a much more profound level than when I do random sections.

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        Animisha The question in the video was: "What if each small spot is 90% success rate, but when you put the whole piece together each time you fail in different places, so that the total success rate is 50%?"

        That question was from me 😳. As Dr. Gebrian was giving her answer, I realized how my wording failed to convey what I really had in mind. This happen to me a lot when trying to ask short questions. And English being my second language certainly does not help.

        What I meant by "success" is more like perfection. So that 10% failure can be 2 kinds: slip of finger (or mind), and less that perfect articulation or dynamics. As an example, if I play a phrase 10 times, I had one slip of finger (wrong note) that I immediately realize. I also know it's a random mistake, it is unlike to happen again the same way, and I won't be committing any bad habit to memory. At that point, I let myself move on from that phrase. I may come back later to it, though.

        Now the 50% success rate when putting the whole piece together. Again I am thinking perfection. There still can be occasional slip of finger/mind. There is always more unsatisfying control of dynamics - I find this a lot harder for my beginner skill. And because the playthrough is longer, chances of these kind of small imperfection popping up here and there randomly makes getting a perfect recording in one take even harder, thus the 50% success (or fail) rate. According to Dr. Gebrian, when this happens I should abandon playthrough and just go back and practice sections or phrases. I rather make a case-by-case judgement, mainly based on whether the fail or small imperfection is repeatable or not. A slip of finger or mind? That's random. I will keep play though and just keep my concentration better. A slightly off articulation or dynamic? I can pay more attention the next time in the playthrough and see if I can change that. But if any mistakes happens the exact same way twice, then my alarm bell rings and I stop and do that bar in isolation until I figure out what's wrong and what's the fix.

        Both kind of errors I mentioned, slip of finger and imprecise dynamics, are most likely a sign of deficiencies in fundamental technique. But then for adult beginners like me, I feel improvement in technique cannot be expected to happen in a very short time span. So rigidly adhering to standards could just stall my progress to the point that might demand the kind of perseverance and grit that I am not sure I have.

            I would like to add if the goal is to bring a piece to performance ready standard, then I agree 100% with Dr. Gebrian's direction.

            iternabe when this happens I should abandon playthrough and just go back and practice sections or phrases.

            I find this so frustrating that I rarely do this. However, Pianoteq records everything so it is easy to simply play back and check which mistakes I made that need fixing.

            I use the Molly method almost exclusively for learning the correct notes. When it comes to expression and dynamics, I work with it as I used to do. When I play something and I think, mmm here I should play just a bit softer, I don't do ten times in a row. It would drive me nuts!

            And it also happens that I "forgive" myself when I make a random mistake, and I feel I am just not up to working with that one. It will either recur, and then I'll fix it, or it will not recur, and then it didn't need fixing. 😊

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              Interesting discussion!

              This is reminding me that I still haven’t finished her book yet… 😅

              An additional difference that sometimes seem to get lost in the discussion is that while a performer has good reasons to practice every piece until it is 100% solid, this is probably not the most efficient use of time for a student whose larger goal is to improve on the instrument. After reaching 90-95 % "perfection" the additional effort to get the piece close to 100% is not at all proportional to the relative improvement. I often think in terms of the pareto principle. The exact numbers quoted vary, but the general gist in this context would be that we spend maybe 20% of the time to get 80% of the desired result. The more we keep polishing the more diminishing returns we get for our effort and time. Personally, my impression is that I learn more per time unit in the early stages and I'd generally rather play 5 pieces to an 80% level than one to 100% if my goal is to learn the instrument or explore music. This of course doesn't exclude polishing some pieces to a performance level, but quantity based approached like 40 pieces a year etc certainly have their merits. One quote you often hear is "Students practice until they get it right, professionals until they can't get it wrong." with the underlying assumption that the professional way is the right way, while in fact the student might actually be doing what is long term optimal for where they are.

                candela Good point. Getting that last 10-20% can take a very long time, time better spent--especially for beginners and intermediates--on working on new and/or different pieces. I know for myself that if I practiced every piece, or even most pieces, to the point of "can't get it wrong" I would be bored out of my head.

                  @Stub excellent post!!!

                  I think the takeaway for me is to take a sort of middle path… use the Gebrian techniques that work for me, and also be very clear on my goals for any given piece. For sightreading or 40P pieces, I’m not going to need them to get all the way to 100%, and I really agree with what you said about 5 pieces at 80% vs. 1 piece at 100%.

                  But for pieces I’m going to perform, then I will want to get those pieces polished to a much higher level.

                  And it makes sense to me to that not all pieces need to be polished to that level.

                  (As an aside, or not… my next concert will be in February so I need to choose which of my current pieces to play for that..)

                  keystring Meanwhile everything you wrote throughout is totally on point.

                  I agree!

                  keystring In any case this is not too OT, this is what I'm listening to right now (for the first time) and am mesmerized!

                  So am I. Thank you for that link Keystring! 🥰

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                      JB_PT It's basically right brain vs. left brain stuff, although I don't recall if that is explicitly stated. I am SO interested in that topic.

                      Pardon the interruption, but I was reading through this thread and came upon this comment, and would like to recommend a book I have called, "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards. Mine is a 1999 version. I haven't looked to see if she's done another update since that one. In any case, this book was, hands-down, instrumental in taking me from wishing I had the talent for drawing, to believing drawing was a learnable skill. Going through the book step by step, my drawings progressed from child-like to more realistic looking. So much better than I'd ever imagined was possible for me. As for the right and left sides of the brain aspect, Chapter 3 is Your Brain: The Right and Left of It, and Chapter 4 is Crossing Over: Experiencing the Shift from Left to Right. The idea of left brain, right brain is also discussed in the various drawing topics within the book.

                      "The Inner Game of Music" sounds like it would be an interesting read. I've added it to my Amazon shopping cart to look at later.

                          Seeker If you send her my way I might be able to help her gratis on that section.

                          That is so kind of you! 😍

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                            Kaydia "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards.

                            I also have the old version of this book, and it also helped me a lot to learn to draw so much better.
                            However, the science in this book is 26 years old, and a lot, a lot has happened since.
                            Still, the way she teaches drawing was revolutionary then, and that still stands.

                            The inner game of music was first published in 1986. So if there is any neuroscience in this, I wouldn't trust it. But, the ideas may still be profound!

                            Molly's ideas resonate with my logical, systematic way of thinking. It would be refreshing to explore a book that speaks to my more musical and creative side! So thank you Kadya for inspiring me. 😊

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                                Animisha The inner game of music was first published in 1986. So if there is any neuroscience in this, I wouldn't trust it

                                I am still getting into the re-read of this book, so maybe there’s something about neuroscience in the Inner Game that I’m not remembering, but my memory is that there isn’t any. The idea of the “inner game” is more about what you think about and how you think about it, how you have to focus as much on your inner game as on your “outer game” (i.e. technique and the physical aspects of playing).