I've been thinking about this a lot since the thread started. I've had some long-winded responses in mind, but I think I can distill it down to the following.

1) For whatever nature and/or nurture reasons, my brain is wired to respond to music in an intensely positive way.
2) Listening to music also evokes a strong desire not only to listen to it but also to create it myself.
3) HOWEVER, I do not enjoy the music itself as much when I am playing alone than when I am listening to it. I shift from audience mode to performer mode, which is mentally very different for me, and not as positive.
4) HOWEVER, when I perform for others, those two seem to collapse together in a good way, and I enjoy the music even more than simply listening to it. For whatever personal psychological reasons, the presence of an audience allows me to inhabit the audience mode even while in performer mode, and then some.

That's about it. 🙂

Enthusiastic but mediocre amateur.

    TC3 HOWEVER, when I perform for others, those two seem to collapse together in a good way, and I enjoy the music even more than simply listening to it. For whatever personal psychological reasons, the presence of an audience allows me to inhabit the audience mode even while in performer mode, and then some.

    That’s awesome!!

    • TC3 likes this.

      Hi ShiroKuro

      For me performing for others is secondary to performing with others. The first is a lovely benefit of the second.

      Apart from classical lessons and practice, I play in a pop/rock band, a big band and attend a sort of jam night. At the moment the big band is not gigging, it's purely a rehearsal band (though that might change next year). The jam night does one gig a quarter, and although we rehearse weekly the pop/rock band only does 5 -10 gigs a year. Most recently last Thursday, which was a lot of fun. So for all that playing (about 90 rehearsals a year) I get to do about 12 gigs a year.

      I was someone who was completely frustrated as a youngster. I could only play what was written in the sheet music, and I wasn't great at reading that in those days. The thrill of playing in a band is something that at one point in my life I never dreamed I'd achieve. It was only when I was about 19 that I found out how to break my reliance on sheet music.

      I could quite happily, continue doing what I'm doing without the gigs. It's the interaction with other musicians that is more special to me. I've made life long friends from music, and they are people I've played with, not played for.

      Cheers

      Simon
      All round average Jazz, Blues & Rock player.
      Currently working towards ABRSM grade 8.

        That’s fantastic @Simonb !

        And 12 gigs a year is once a month, that’s a lot!

        And I think the social element is really important, and wonderful.

        So far, I have found one person here to play with, but our schedules don’t match up well so e don’t play together as often as I’d like. Hopefully I can find a few more musicians, and a few pianists, to have some more varied musical interactions. Given that we’ve only lived here for a year and half though, I think I’m doing ok. 🙂

          Hi ShiroKuro

          I've only ever played with another Piano/keyboard player once. A chap I used to work with (over 40 years ago) played Piano and we had a few jams together. At the jam night I attend we sometimes have 2 keyboards, but that's so that we can realise an arrangement, so one keyboard might be doing a horn part, and the other Piano.

          I've never played classical music with anyone else, and I don't think I want to. For one thing the standard of playing required to play in a classical situation (of whatever type) seems to be so much higher, and secondly I consider it a solo discipline. I think the simple truth is I'm a better non-classical player.

          Cheers

          Simon
          All round average Jazz, Blues & Rock player.
          Currently working towards ABRSM grade 8.

              @Simonb when I mentioned finding other pianists, I didn't mean in order to play duets with them, but rather to be able to listen to other pianists, and have other pianists listen to me -- for example, to have musical parties with different kinds of musicians playing, including other pianists.

              Simonb I've never played classical music with anyone else, and I don't think I want to.

              I don't play classical music either, and I do generally play solo music. But there are lots of (non-classical) pieces that are written for piano + violin or piano + cello, and that's I'm aiming for when I play with string players.

                Simonb, your reply is where my mind was going, too.

                Performing for others is a step away from playing for one's self. Performing with others is a step in the same direction but continuing onward from performing for others. Almost seems like a logical step. Step 1, then step 2, and then (if you take it), step 3.

                Step 2 engages an audience that may only be listening. Step 3 engages other players that will interact with your playing by playing along with you in some way, perhaps even causing you to play something differently because of what they're doing.

                It's one reason I enjoy playing in the jazz trio I'm in and also playing in the jazz jam I've been going to for a while now. Though I sometimes do something solo, I like the trio, and for at least some of that, I'm driving. For the jazz jam, other than a solo that I might take during a piece, I am not driving at all, more like trying to keep up. LOL!! There is a challenge there of "sink or swim", which is a little scary at first but then you realize that everybody else is in the same boat as you are and you just start to have fun. The unspoken goal of every jazz jam is a "train wreck", which means "pushing to failure". Good way to grow if your attitude is right.

                    @Bellyman interesting comments! I don't play jazz, so the ideas of "driving," "train wreck," and "pushing to failure" are all new to me.

                    Bellyman Step 1, then step 2, and then (if you take it), step 3.

                    So step 2 is playing for others, and step 3 is playing with others?

                    That's interesting because I would put it in the reverse order. Step 1 is playing alone, step 2 is playing with others, step 3 is playing for others (whether you're playing on your own or with others in that step 3 part).

                    Back to the original question, "why perform for others" .... We were at brunch today, on campus. The place has a grand piano and there's always someone playing, with a tip jar out. I'm pretty sure it's always a student from the music school at the uni where I work.

                    Anyway, I found myself thinking I would love to do that. I currently have about 45 minutes of music ready to go. I could sit there and play, just for one set. I don't care about (or need!) the tips. I would give all the tips to the servers -- or the pianist whose spot I took.

                    But as I realized I was thinking that, it brought me back to this thread.... where above I believe I said I don't have a "need" to perform.... But I obviously have a pretty strong desire to do so!
                    I still don't really know why though....
                    😅

                        Hi Bellyman

                        I've also played in assorted Jazz groups over the decades. A quintet, which only ever did a few gigs and many times in Piano, Vibes & bass trio.

                        Here's a video from almost 20 years of a quartet I was in, playing a Jazz standard. Inevitably a wedding gig! I still play with the drummer now. Sadly the Vibes player (Terry) passed away 10 years ago. He's probably the best amateur musician I ever played with.

                        I may have posted this before, apologies to anyone if it's a duplicate.

                        Cheers

                        Simon
                        All round average Jazz, Blues & Rock player.
                        Currently working towards ABRSM grade 8.

                            Wow! that was great!!

                              Hi ShiroKuro

                              That's very kind - thanks.

                              In relation to your original question there are two things worth saying about that video:

                              1. Almost nobody was listening to us!
                              2. I didn't know the gig was being filmed on a camcorder. If I'd have known I'm sure I'd have played much worse. As it was I was just having fun and going for it..... almost like Bellyman said earlier, pushing to the limit.

                              Cheers

                              Simon
                              All round average Jazz, Blues & Rock player.
                              Currently working towards ABRSM grade 8.

                                  Simonb Almost nobody was listening to us!
                                  I didn't know the gig was being filmed on a camcorder. If I'd have known I'm sure I'd have played much worse. As it was I was just having fun and going for it..... almost like Bellyman said earlier, pushing to the limit.

                                  Sounds perfect! 😃

                                  Re playing at the restaurant that I mentioned above -- no one claps, it doesn't seem like people are truly listening because they're eating and chatting. It would be similar to what you described.

                                      ShiroKuro, "it doesn't seem like people are truly listening" is a very comfortable place for me to play. I love being "background". I can go for hours. Don't need music, just the time and space, and the keys of course.

                                      Unfortunately, my competition is often a CD player or Spotify or some such. (sigh)

                                        Simonb, you might have shared that video before, but I enjoyed it more this time!

                                        A Night in Tunisia is one of the tunes that I saw in the Real Book that never seemed to make much sense to me... until they got it out at Jazz Jam one night. I'm not a good enough reader to just pick it up and run with it like I've been playin' it for 20 years so I struggled a bit. But since, I've heard several people take it apart and go over just what it is which isn't nearly as complicated as what Dizzy Gillespie or Charlie Parker make it sound when I listen to them. And now, it makes a lot more sense to me, not just "noise" anymore. It's changed from a tune I didn't really care much for to now, a snappy little tune.

                                        Yup, I can see you havin' fun! 😃 The ol' leg gets involved. LOL!! Thankfully, it's only one at a time. LOL!! (I find myself doin' the leg thing from time to time, too, but don't always find it helpful, sometimes it'll be distracting. Funny how that works.)

                                          ShiroKuro So step 2 is playing for others, and step 3 is playing with others?

                                          That's interesting because I would put it in the reverse order. Step 1 is playing alone, step 2 is playing with others, step 3 is playing for others (whether you're playing on your own or with others in that step 3 part).

                                          You're not wrong. If that's the logical progression for you, that's great!

                                          I'm thinking in particular of a song most would probably recognize. "Linus and Lucy". It's a popular tune heard around Christmas time made famous by "Charlie Brown Christmas", the cartoon. It is deceptive. It sounds quite simple. And it's not awfully difficult to play fairly decently solo. You (not you specifically, but perhaps (m)any of us) could probably play it nearly perfectly solo and most people would think you did a splendid job. But... add in a drummer and maybe a bass player and the game changes considerably. Timing is quite tricky. Question is, can you play it WITH them? Takes it to a whole new level.

                                          That's where my mind was going when I ordered things as I did. It may be 100% different for someone else. And maybe some of you are at a level where Linus and Lucy is primitive and easy, any day, with any competent drummer. My hat is off to you if that's you. Didn't say I can't, but at least for me, it's not as easy as fallin' off a log.