Why perform for others?

ShiroKuro · 2024-12-05T12:12:47+00:00

Yesterday was my first lesson with my piano teacher after playing the concert during Thanksgiving week. We ended up having a sort of philosophical discussion...

ShiroKuro

keff At least 40, perhaps 50 in the first half when parents were present with very young children.

Nice!
I’ll look forward to hearing your arrangement!

macuaig

It’s also helpful, and important, to consider why an audience member comes to a performance. It may be a famous player or program, or a notable event or holiday, or just the desire to enjoy the audience experience.

If they explicitly came for your particular performance, you have a motivated audience and your internal purposes are more in play. If they came for an event which coincidentally has a piano element, then I think the discussion must expand to their reasons for participation. I’ll enjoy considering that aspect.

I really like your comparison with cooking for others. It also includes why someone may not wish to perform for others at all, becoming a better to cook to enhance their own meals and experience. A dinner party is such a different thing. Thanks for the topic.

ShiroKuro

macuaig It’s also helpful, and important, to consider why an audience member comes to a performance.

Excellent point!!

macuaig If they explicitly came for your particular performance

This is the easy sort, because if they came for my performance, they are friends, and that reduces the pressure significantly.

If they came for "good music" and expect a professional-level performance, that might make me a little nervous, to say the least!

lilypad

ShiroKuro It's interesting to me that "sharing my interpretation" didn't come up in my own descriptions...

Maybe think of it that way might actually help me relax a bit more and focus on the music rather than being distracted by all the pressures of performing.

I've seen the advice to think of sharing music vs. hoping not to mess up as being helpful in calming performance nerves.
I haven't quite got the knack of it yet. I end up with a hybrid "I hope I don't mess up while I'm sharing this piece that I love".

Bellyman

It might be better in another thread, but another concept might be "why perform WITH others". Have you ever performed with a group? As a for instance, have you played with an ensemble of other instruments?

In my case, I play with a trio, piano-bass-drums. The drums keep me honest about timing. The bass makes me pay attention to chord structures that may or may not be what I intend and adjusting on the fly is sometimes a requirement. And if I miss a note or notes, I HAVE to keep going, it's not optional. Also, it makes one concentrate in ways they wouldn't otherwise as it can lock you in to a timing you may not be comfortable with (too fast or even too slow), and also introduces a lot of background noise that can be distracting.

Might be a different subject, but it's what came to mind when I was reading the posts. It could be an ensemble. It could be a band. It could be another player either on the same set of piano keys or another player at another piano at the same time. It could be a vocalist singing with you. Lots of possible dynamics.

ShiroKuro

Bellyman "why perform WITH others"

To me, the answer to this is quite different from the question of performing for others.

I used to play regularly with a violinist, and before that a cellist. After I moved, I hard a hard time finding musician friends but now I have a cello friend.

To me, playing with someone else has the benefits you mentioned, in terms becoming a better musician through being part of a musical ensemble, the social aspect of sharing music with other, and also the chance to play music that I can't play on my own.

All of these are truly wonderful to experience.

But to my original question: if I'm playing solo music, I don't have to perform it to enjoy it. I can play it on my own, for myself.

The same could be said of an ensemble. You could just play with your friends, or you and your friends could perform for others.

So that's where the question is. Why perform?

🙂

Bellyman

ShiroKuro But to my original question: if I'm playing solo music, I don't have to perform it to enjoy it. I can play it on my own, for myself.

Indeed, I do play sometimes just for my own enjoyment. Something typical of late is to fire up Pianoteq and turn the reverb up way too high and play something "dreamy". I can mentally wander off in my own little world, any direction I wanna go. 🙂

P.S., didn't mean to hijack the thread. I had just had my coffee and my brain was quite busy. LOL!!

Stub

ShiroKuro So that's where the question is. Why perform?

The best reason I can come up with is if you can answer yes to the question of will your performance provide pleasure to the person hearing it (and if you have any interest in pleasing other people, which not everyone does). Thus it's the performer's own self assessment of their playing, and of the listener's expectations, that determines whether to perform or not.

Some people express belief in a "need" or "duty" to perform, but I'm not one of them. I play for myself. I can read a book or watch a movie for my own personal pleasure. Same with piano. At the same time, if someone want to perform, go for it! It's a big tent. There's room for both approaches.

ShiroKuro

No, no, hijack away!! 🙂

I think I'll be thinking about this for a long time... 🙂

Pallas

My teacher says we make art to connect with other people. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I do keep showing up to everything she organizes because I do want to make piano friends in real life, but I find it very difficult to play in front of piano people who might judge. I have no problem playing and making mistakes in front of casual listeners who know I'm a beginner. I'm not going to adopt any particular philosophy about playing because it's enough for me to be learning at all. Whether or not I perform, and for whom, is not a burning question for me. I show up to the little recitals my teacher puts on for us to show my appreciation, and to give my fellow students an easy audience. I have no illusions that I'll ever be "performing," but if that happens, it happens. Who knows!

ShiroKuro

Pallas My teacher says we make art to connect with other people

Ooh, I like that!

Re playing for people “who might judge,” I started to feel at some point that other musicians generally make the most sympathetic audience.

MRC

Pallas My teacher says we make art to connect with other people

ShiroKuro Ooh, I like that!

So do I!

Music for me is the most wonderful form of non-verbal communication. I want to tell a story, one that cannot be told in words. I want people to be moved, fascinated, sometimes comforted and sometimes unsettled. If after a concert somebody compliments me on my technique, I know I have failed. But if somebody says that the music made them dream, or it made them cry, or it filled them with joy, then I'm happy.

macuaig

A friend asked me about her daughter’s art teacher who told her if she doesn’t have an explanation for the point of view of her excellent drawings, they are not art. I’d consider this a clumsy way of trying to teach, but I could see a possible intent.

Art vs illustration. Art can be well executed - and demonstrate an underlying message. Illustration may just be an exercise in skillfully rendering imagery, just for the sake of the execution.

Relating to music performance? Does musical art have to negotiate with others, or is the development of personal competencies a valid pursuit of its own? I’d say of course it is, and performing for others is a different exercise entirely. Again, very similar to cooking for oneself vs holding a dinner party. They are separate activities that of course would inform each other, but are not required of the same person.

I’ve known people who perform publicly frequently enough that they no longer desire to play alone. They can be two different activities.

ShiroKuro

macuaig performing for others is a different exercise entirely

Yes, performing is its own animal, IMO anyway!

ShiroKuro

Stub Some people express belief in a "need" or "duty" to perform, but I'm not one of them

Right... this is super interesting, because I would not have described myself as someone who has a "need" to perform, and certainly I don't feel a duty.... I'm not good enough for that! 😛

But, I am very motivated to perform... I just can't quite articulate why. Certainly there's a pedagogical benefit, i.e., I learn a lot and my playing benefits from performing. But I don't think that's really why, it's more just like a nice side benefit rather than a core reason.

I guess some of it is because of the reasons I suggested at the beginning of this thread

What are we doing when we play for someone else? Showing them our musical skills? Sharing our love of music in general? Sharing our love of a particular piece? Trying to create an emotional/musical experience for the other person?

But I feel like there's something else, that I just haven't articulated yet...

So maybe another part of it is what you said,

if you can answer yes to the question of will your performance provide pleasure to the person hearing it (and if you have any interest in pleasing other people, which not everyone does). Thus it's the performer's own self assessment of their playing, and of the listener's expectations, that determines whether to perform or not.

Maybe it's like why we do anything for other people, we hope it makes them happy, and we feel good doing something for others?

Stub

ShiroKuro Maybe it's like why we do anything for other people, we hope it makes them happy, and we feel good doing something for others?

Yes, and the second part rings true--gift giving often does as much, or more, for the gift-giver than for the giftee. It makes us feel good giving of our own free will.

Thinking about this some more since I posted yesterday, it occurs to me that performing in front of others also satisfies the showman in us (I'm thinking in very general terms and not about anybody here!!). We like our moment in the spotlight and a little bit of praise. This is definitely not to say it's showing off, but rather that most people do appreciate having their egos stroked now and then. For those who don't perform, they get it in other ways.

ShiroKuro, how strong is your need to perform? My teacher performs a lot, in some small things and in some major undertakings. I suspect there is a level of compulsion present in her need to perform. Injury has forced her to cut back some and it is very hard on her.

Pallas

MRC If after a concert somebody compliments me on my technique, I know I have failed.

Oh no! I hope that's not true! On my vacation, I got the chance to hear a pianist up close playing in the lobby of a gorgeous hotel, and he was talking to an admiring little girl who took piano lessons, and they were enjoying one another while talking about technique. His hands were like butterflies and I was astounded by his sound. But he ALSO touched my heart with his playing and his open willingness to connect with his admirers. I think I hear what you're saying - that feeling is directly more important to you personally. But I just think you never know with people. Someone who was profoundly moved might not be the kind of person who can say that, and instead they compliment ... your technique. ❤️ (I didn't say anything to him at all, because I didn't want to interrupt, but he was a highlight of my trip.)

macuaig

Pallas “His hands were like butterflies.” Many thanks for that. You have made my week.

ShiroKuro

Stub ShiroKuro, how strong is your need to perform?

I mean, it that strong.. I wouldn’t call it a need..

But performing has always been part of what I envision as part of my piano activities… almost like it’s a given.

And it obviously matters to me enough that I make efforts to do it…

But I wasn’t playing for others all throughout the pandemic, and I certainly didn’t stop playing. So not performing isn’t something that is upsetting or something…

It’s hard articulate.

I think maybe it’s more social than I realized…

Pallas

macuaig It's my pleasure to share that moment with you. Makes it even better.