Shallow Keybeds....
Key dip is not standard. My two pianos have different key dips. The patent action key-dip is something like 8 mm (it's officially 9 but actually I think it's either a bit shallower or the felts underneath are very firm). My standard action is 11mm (officially 10 but it's not...) and also the sound happens much further down the key dip than on the patent action.
Over the years it hasn't been standardized on pianos until relatively recently. I've seen Bösendorfers from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that had different key dips to today's models and I'm not sure if they were regulated that way or if it was standard for each era. If I recall correctly Schimmel always had a little deeper key dip, Blüthner was a bit shallower, but the standard we have now is really the Hamburg Steinway specification from the mid-20th Century or a bit later, onwards. Yamaha and Kawai adopted this specification and rolled it out on all their pianos about 40 years ago, and Yamaha have a policy that their Clavinova has the same key dip as the CFX and all the other pianos. I suspect that Bösendorfer today uses the standard key dip but I've never measured it.
A shallower key dip in my experience requires a slightly different technique. It's fairly easy to adapt once you know how but it's a bit disconcerting at first. Of course it's hard to be completely consistent between pianos with different keyboard specifications.
@Joseph-Fleetwood that’s really interesting!
I’m sure I would have adjusted more quickly if it wasn’t a performance situation!
Adjusting quickly for a concert is never an ideal situation. It takes time. I've had this problem too. It's kinda sucky.
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@Joseph-Fleetwood what do you do to try to adjust before a concert when the piano feels more shallow than what you’re used to?
Well, I can only give general guidance since pianos can vary wildly even when you have two of the same make and model. It's not so much the key depth that's important as it is the point in the key depth where the escapement happens.
If the piano feels deep, I point my fingers down more from the knuckle. the metacarpal joint, and I stay closer to the keys and use a bit more weight from the arm. Just a touch more, nothing too drastic. When the keyboard is shallow I actually find a less pointed finger, almost a flatter hand attitude works a bit better, with the fingers pointed more out the way than down the way. I use a bit less weight otherwise it can feel like I'm hitting a hard surface because my finger travel will continue after the key has sounded. When it's a shallow touch I use less weight and feel more like I'm playing outside of the keyboard rather than inside it.
If the piano is a bit stiff, I tend to use a bit more finger action, but it's a downward - inward action, pulling the finger in towards the palm rather than a vertical motion, and then release from the palm so that the finger resets to the starting position without being pulled upwards.
Does that help?
Joseph-Fleetwood When the keyboard is shallow I actually find a less pointed finger, almost a flatter hand attitude works a bit better, with the fingers pointed more out the way than down the way.
Ahh, that makes sense, esp re the piano I played that instigated this thread!
thank you!
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I experimented with my own piano by making the keydip shallower. Found it easier to play faster and more accurately, but the depth of sound and dynamic range were significantly decreased. I'd probably like a piano with shallow keydip for live performances because I'd rather sacrifice beauty of tone than technical accuracy, but that's from my own insecurities .
Rubens I wonder if it's to do with action design as well. Perhaps making the key dip shallower requires a complete readjustment and regulation of the whole action including factors like hammer blow distance?
Joseph-Fleetwood Perhaps making the key dip shallower requires a complete readjustment and regulation of the whole action including factors like hammer blow distance?
Standard disclaimer because I'm not a piano tech, but this sounds very logical to me, especially given the before/after differences I've felt when a piano has had significant regulation work.
Makes perfect sense and gives me some hope. Now I want to repeat the experiment with the extra regulation after adjusting the dip. If it works I'll send you a bottle of scotch.
On an upright, the piano designer can decide on a keystick length without much of a tradeoff of other design parameters. On a grand of a fixed length, using longer keysticks means that the rest of the piano (including soundboard, plate and strings) is shorter.
That is why keysticks tend to be shorter on smaller grands, which in turn is part of why I tend to prefer a full sized upright over a grand shorter than about 6'.