Finding a Teacher for an "Advanced" Amateur

BartK · 2024-10-29T09:52:20+00:00

So, I have been learning piano for nearly 10 years (my piannivesary is November 11th) and as that date approaches I feel a little discouraged by my level and...

Josephine

BartK

Ohh, that's great! Like Pallas I also hope you will report on how it goes!

Simonb

Animisha

Hi Animisha

I hope the Zachary Deak on-line lessons work well for you.

Though as you used the phrase "does not teach in the way I want to" I have my doubts. If you have a very fixed view on how you should be taught, I'm not sure that you'll ever find a teacher (in person or on-line) who meets all your requirements.

I'd have thought the reason the Teacher asked you to play through the piece, that you hadn't practised, was to see how good your reading was.

This forum and the other one, that I've been on for much longer are great. There are many fabulous musicians posting on both. However I never post questions on technique or playing here (or there), as the variety of, sometimes very strong opinions expressed, a lot of the time makes drawing a sensible conclusion almost impossible.

For classical playing and technique I rely only on my Teacher. She is no virtuoso, in fact she is primarily a Viola player, but I expect to at least start working at diploma level with her over the next few years. I knew within a few minutes of our first lesson that she was the right person for me, as her musicality shines through.

Again good luck!

Pallas

Simonb However I never post questions on technique or playing here (or there), as the variety of, sometimes very strong opinions expressed, a lot of the time makes drawing a sensible conclusion almost impossible.

I'm so glad you said this. I'm convinced that it was letting go of all the "shoulds" that helped me finally connect with a teacher. It's fun to talk about ideals, but in the end, each person is very different, each teacher is very different, and as pianists, part of the job is to take in a great deal of information, then make choices about how to use that information on our journey. It's fun to talk about the options, but in the end, no one else is there with us on the bench. I think that the most important skill that I never see anyone talk about is discernment. So of course, I'm wanting to make a new thread just about that. ☺️ (I thought about it, and realized I should use the time to practice instead! 😂)

Animisha

Simonb Though as you used the phrase "does not teach in the way I want to" I have my doubts. If you have a very fixed view on how you should be taught, I'm not sure that you'll ever find a teacher (in person or on-line) who meets all your requirements.

That is very true!

Simonb I'd have thought the reason the Teacher asked you to play through the piece, that you hadn't practised, was to see how good your reading was.

This was actually part of her teaching. So she could teach me how to play something before I start practising it. It is a completely valid part of teaching. However, for several reasons, I don't want to work that way.

Also,

Simonb I knew within a few minutes of our first lesson that she was the right person for me, as her musicality shines through.

I have never experienced this. Never!

But you are right, it is probably because I have too many ideas. 🤪
However, if I ever would find a teacher that I really trust, I would be happy to let go of all of them.

Animisha

BartK

Good luck Bart, and please tell us!

BartK

So, I just had my lesson with Greg Niemczuk.

I started with the Humoresque. Even though I know it's not a performance I was very nervous at the beginning and messed up in a few places. After the initial playthrough we talked a bit about the piece and what to do to improve it but also about technique and how to approach practicing. We went over a couple of spots that were giving me trouble and he provided some tips on practicing it.

Then, I played the Bach and then I also messed up so much he even stopped me and we focused on that spot for a little. He asked me to divide it into voices and practice it separately. After that, I continued playing to the end of the piece and that went fairly smoothly.

I think he is a great teacher and had many insightful remarks about practicing and technique. I might take more lessons with him in the future but I think for the moment I need an in person teacher that I will see more regularly and work on all the little issues.

Thanks to everyone for your encouragement on this thread!

JB_PT

Sounds like a positive experience! I agree about in-person being a better choice. I've done some online lessons and while they were better than I expected, they still didn't compare to working together in person.

BartK He asked me to divide it into voices and practice it separately.

I'm curious about his recommendation for this bit. I've heard this advice before but I've been avoiding it for 3-4 voices because it seems like it's best to maintain the correct fingering, and I have a lot of trouble keeping track of that for so many voices unless I write it all in....which is very cumbersome and messy.

Animisha

BartK I think he is a great teacher and had many insightful remarks about practicing and technique. I might take more lessons with him in the future but I think for the moment I need an in person teacher that I will see more regularly and work on all the little issues.

Bart, how is it going? Have you found an in person teacher?

BartK

JB_PT I'm curious about his recommendation for this bit. I've heard this advice before but I've been avoiding it for 3-4 voices because it seems like it's best to maintain the correct fingering, and I have a lot of trouble keeping track of that for so many voices unless I write it all in....which is very cumbersome and messy.

You're supposed to play each voice separately but with the final fingering. I don't think he was saying to play the whole piece like this. We were practicing a small bit of a few measures that is tricky and for this spot I think it makes sense.

Pallas

I'm so glad you mentioned separating the voices. My teacher asks me to do this too, and of course this was one of the big tussles that happened at PW before I stopped going there. There's this idea that something terrible will happen if we separate the hands to work out a problem. I no longer buy in to that idea. Sometimes, it's impossible to see where the problem originates if we don't separate the hands. So now I do separate the hands when I can't find a problem. It works, and I have no problem putting the hands back together. I think we should be very careful not to let advice on the Internet interfere with our progress.

Great work, BartK. I'm so glad the lesson was valuable to you, and I wish you all the best finding an in person teacher.

BartK

Pallas I'm so glad you mentioned separating the voices. My teacher asks me to do this too, and of course this was one of the big tussles that happened at PW before I stopped going there. There's this idea that something terrible will happen if we separate the hands to work out a problem. I no longer buy in to that idea. Sometimes, it's impossible to see where the problem originates if we don't separate the hands. So now I do separate the hands when I can't find a problem. It works, and I have no problem putting the hands back together.

That's a whole topic of its own but basically you have to do both. Of course, you need to practice hands together to learn the coordination but you also have to have clarity in your mind about what each hand is doing and be able to focus on and hear one thing at a time even while playing it together. I remember that as a beginner I used to learn hands separate then put hands together but then after I played hands together for a while I wasn't able to play hands separate anymore. That wasn't good because it meant I was completely reliant on the motor memory of playing hands together.

Sgisela

Pallas — there are people who seem very ideological about HT or HS. I came from teachers who encouraged playing HT (and pedaling) as much as possible from the beginning. But the moment there were technical problems, unless the technical problem was specifically about coordinating the hands, then the technical issues were addressed HS, without pedal. I think it’s much more efficient and targeted that way. If you’re having a technical problem that you need to sort out, I think this is most effectively done by isolating it as much as possible — and if your brain is working on a lot of other things at the same time, it’s very hard to isolate the problem and work it out and get it into the system. So, my approach is to practice HT as much as possible but when I encounter technical difficulties, to try to isolate them.

As regards voicing, I think a lot of the reason to practice the separate voices is to train yourself to hear the voices. For my brain and ear, unless I do this, it can be easy to ignore some of the voices, and that ends up coming through to the audience.

Pallas

BartK Ah, separate the voices not the hands. Maybe I misunderstood. But my objection to NOT separating whatever still stands. ☺️

BartK

Pallas Ah, separate the voices not the hands. Maybe I misunderstood. But my objection to NOT separating whatever still stands. ☺️

Yes, in Bach there are often more than two voices, sometimes moving between the hands, and you should be able to play each separately with it's own independent phrasing. It's a common exercise to practice separate voices.

iternabe

BartK I remember that as a beginner I used to learn hands separate then put hands together but then after I played hands together for a while I wasn't able to play hands separate anymore.

I find this true even for things as basic as scales.

Stub

Sgisela I came from teachers who encouraged playing HT (and pedaling) as much as possible from the beginning. But the moment there were technical problems, unless the technical problem was specifically about coordinating the hands, then the technical issues were addressed HS, without pedal. I think it’s much more efficient and targeted that way. If you’re having a technical problem that you need to sort out, I think this is most effectively done by isolating it as much as possible — and if your brain is working on a lot of other things at the same time, it’s very hard to isolate the problem and work it out and get it into the system. So, my approach is to practice HT as much as possible but when I encounter technical difficulties, to try to isolate them.

Yes. HS on is one of the tools to haul out when there's a problem. I do go through a new piece HS the very first time, mostly to get a start on fingering. After that, HT. I am on the fence about incorporating pedal at the start. Very often, my teacher will request I play without the pedal so ~~I can't cheat on legato~~ she can more clearly hear my tone.

BartK

Animisha Bart, how is it going? Have you found an in person teacher?

Not yet. I'm currently busy with some other personal stuff so I probably will only start looking after the new year.

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