Rubens What is most important to me is that the sound emulates my acoustic piano well.

Do you want it to sound like your acoustic piano in the finished recording, or while you are playing?

I do not have any experience with acoustic piano, so please feel free to question what I am about to say. When I read online discussions on modeled (e.g. pianoteq) vs sampled (e.g. VSL, etc) sound engines, and I read a lot of them, the word of “playability” comes up a lot. Pianoteq seems to win on the playability front for most people. Most sampled libraries, on the other hand, are regarded to have more “acoustic-like” sound.

I always wondered what “playability” means exactly. I think it means how the digital piano sound engine responds to the player in real time. Modeled engine excel in this regard because response in dynamics, timber, and pedal/sympathetic resonance are infinite and with little to no delay. Sampled library, on the other hand, cannot have that expanse of variation due to limitation in file size and processing power. On the other hand, in term of the richness of sound signature, modeled sound engine is always modeling a subset of what’s happening on the strings and in the soundboard, thus often not as good as recorded samples.

So it comes back to my original question. Are you using it for practice, or for making recordings?

      Based on your initial post, and discussion above, I think your current best bet is the VI Labs Modern D. Where it excels at (compared to other VSTs) is how "satisfying" the "playability" is. When I'm playing Pianoteq, there's something about the responsiveness that feels like yes, playing a piano, but less of an extension of self.

      The Modern D appears to get the low velocities right, where it feels very, very natural.

      This year, I've almost daily been playing my two acoustic pianos, and VST's.

      At this time, Modern D - by a wide margin - is my go-to if I'm looking for the most satisfying feel.

        iternabe
        Thanks for your detailed reply!
        To answer your questions, and more:

        • I would use it for practice
        • I want it to sound the way my acoustic sounds when I play the acoustic
        • The recording I posted is a good approximation of what my acoustic sounds to my ears when I play it!
        • I'm looking for suggestions in terms of what to try that would sound most similar to that example in your opinion, because there are so many to try

            I listened to demos of the VI Labs Modern D with the Thick Concert Grand preset and I like how it sounds fairly similar to my Baldwin. If I don't fond anything more similar I'll go with this one. Thanks keystring!

              Rubens Before you get your hopes up, realize that no VST, sampled or modeled, is ever going to sound like your Baldwin - not ever, never. And no VST is going to react as well as your Kawai ES920 does using the internal sounds, because the keys and the sounds are dedicated.

              Pianoteq has it's pluses, one being that you can demo it for free. But to me, the sound of all of the Pianoteq pianos I've ever tried is synthetic and uninspiring, audibly unacceptable for my personal taste. Other players think it's great. As for VSTs, before you spend any money on one, download and play every single free piano sample that appeals to you, and there are lots of them.
              https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/ has some smaller sized samples to play around with.
              https://www.pianobook.co.uk/instrument/pianos/ has a lot of piano sample sets, some that rival commercially produced ones.

              You'll also need some type of "player" to access the samples, like these two, which are also free:
              https://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando.html
              https://www.decentsamples.com/product/decent-sampler-plugin/

              After you spend some time, maybe a week or so, playing, tweaking, comparing however many free vst pianos you can, you just might think twice about shelling out money for something that may, or may not, be better than the free ones, and probably not any better than your Kawai ES920.

                  PianoMonk
                  Thanks. I know there is not much to hope for, in terms of improvement from what I already get from my ES920.
                  Just recently I recorded a piece on the ES920, and I was amazed at the beauty of its sound. (I submitted it to the recital btw.) But it sounds very different from my Baldwin, of course. I will check your links, thanks again.

                    Rubens I listened to demos of the VI Labs Modern D with the Thick Concert Grand preset and I like how it sounds fairly similar to my Baldwin

                    Perhaps by coincidence, as Modern D is also an American instrument! 🙂

                      And of course I know that nothing will sound the same as my Baldwin, even though it's what I wish for. No need to state the obvious. But I'm sure there is one that would come the closest to what I'm looking for, to my ears. Whether it's worth the $$$ is another matter.

                      HeartKeys I concur. I use the VI Labs Modern D as well. Of all the VSTs I’ve tried this one gets it right

                        Now I hear that Shigeru Kawai is coming to Pianoteq. I love SK, but it's a tone that is the opposite of my Baldwin. A round, smooth tone. It seems to be a kind of tone that is easier to obtain in VST's, because I find most to be overly smooth. What I'm looking for is a big, vibrant, "growling" tone, but able to play the softest pianissimo too, and not harsh, of course. Not percussive either, but more of a sustained growl, so to speak. I'll stop using words because I can't quite find the correct words.

                          Rubens when I was piano shopping, I played a couple Baldwins and I totally understand your description of the Baldwin. They have very big personalities. I really connected with Baldwin for some repertoire but really didn’t connect with it at all for other repertoire.
                          Anyways, I don’t have anything at all to say about VSTs, as I’ve never used them. But I hope you find what you’re looking for!

                            And then there's NI Claire:

                            Pushing the "Tone" slider to the right (at 10:44 in the video) certainly brings the sound close to what I'm looking for. So many things to try...

                              Rubens I got Claire the other day, and currently think it'll be difficult to attain the action/touch you'd have in mind. It sounds amazing. But the way the instrument was coded, it likely will be less optimal than the Modern D for the combination of the roar tone, and playability.

                                  HeartKeys

                                  Thanks for your advice. Yes I figured there'd be more to it than just hearing a demo and liking the sound. There's also the complex interplay between feel and sound, and more variables that I don't even know yet...

                                    3 months later

                                    navindra The long and short of it is that if you get into VSTs, you'll either make your peace with one of them, or you'll eternally spend the rest of your years searching for The One

                                    Wiser words have never been spoken. 😆

                                    I’ve been fortunate to have found my “one” in Noire for the past couple of years but even then I am always keeping an eye out for something “better”.

                                      • Rob

                                      • Post #25

                                      I found mine in The Giant from Native Instruments. It has everything, and more for the kind of music i like to play.

                                      I often wondered if I should try some others, so bought The Grandeur, then Noire, but for some reason, I keep going back to the Giant. It is all subjective, in the end.