Hey Alexis Ffrench fans

ShiroKuro · 2024-09-10T11:05:25+00:00

So how many Alexis Ffrench fans are there here? I am desperate to get the score for Miracles, but it’s not available. Tunescribers will transcribe it for $11...

ShiroKuro

And here’s a selection of September Song, also by Ffrench. I had a hard time sightreading this at first, but now I’m playing it at tempo and hoping to have it record-ready by the end of this month.

ShiroKuro

Hmmm, looking at Sept Song, I can’t decide if it’s easier than Miracles or not… I can play Sept Song now, so it’s hard to compare.

I think Sept Song has a more obvious melody line, so that may make it easier… and fewer rests. You wouldn’t think rests should add difficulty, but I think they add a reading challenging (maybe only for someone like me who doesn’t play by ear?)

Here’s Sept Song if you want to listen:

Rubens

ShiroKuro

Sorry you've been struggling with inner voices, I will increase your medication 😆
Seriously I find the first page to be the most difficult in those terms, but it gets easier afterwards.
Yes there are up to three voices in the piece, as you have observed.
Also good observation on the lack of a time signature😆. This was obvious, and I rarely state the obvious, sorry.
To learn the piece I'd advise to listen to it with the score and then learn to play it. Like playing by ear but with the score to assist you. Rogerch's approach is more advanced.
As you can see I made a few small edits subsequently, so my apologies if you had already printed out the score before the latest edits! You can make the corrections on your sheet by hand if that's the case.

ShiroKuro

Rubens Sorry you've been struggling with inner voices, I will increase your medication

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I guess I walked right into that one!!!
😂😂😂

Ok I’m going to work on this now (I usually practice at night so this feels like a treat! 🎶

Rubens

Here's an alternate notation of the first bar, which is easier to read and would sound the same with pedal.

Maybe I'm the one who is hearing too many voices😆. Too much Bach in my life.

kanadajin

Rubens I totally agree with this comment.

There are always different approaches to notation when transcribing and it is entirely up to the transcriber to take whatever artistic licence they see fit. (based on preferences, experience, ease, etc.) Forgive me for mentioning that I cannot help noticing that this latest I think seems to be going more along the lines of my original attempt. Obviously I was notating at half speed (note lengths) from this and as I found out upon later re-listen, with some glaring missing notes in my haste to get something out in minimal time.

In any case, all this is a great exercise and a lot of fun 🙂
PS I yet have to have a closer look at the completed score - life is kinda getting in the way 🤪!

ShiroKuro

Rubens Too much Bach in my life.

Maybe that's why it was so easy for you transcribe this!!

It makes me wonder about Ffrench's training. As far as I know, he was traditionally trained in the classical repertoire.

Rubens

ShiroKuro
Do not despair! I'd say this is slightly more difficult than September Song.

ShiroKuro

Rubens ShiroKuro
Do not despair! I'd say this is slightly more difficult than September Song.

Interesting... I spent maybe 45 minutes on Miracles today.... and I'm thinking it's easier than Sept. Song... I'm only getting start though, let's see how I feel after working on for a week 😅

Anyway, I had a much better time with the score today! I did listen a bit, not too much though because I'm still playing it quite slow. But I think I can now actually work on the music from the score.

I think the reason I felt like it's a little easier than Sept Song is because today I didn't feel like it was a struggle to distribute those inner voices in Miracles between the LH and RH. Whereas when I was learning Sept Song, that was a huge struggle for me.

Although maybe Miracles just feels easier because I can already play Sept Song and maybe I've picked up some Ffrench-esque thing that makes Miracles more accessible as a result of having played Sept. Song.... If that's true, then after working on Miracles and getting it polished, maybe next I should revisit some of the pieces in his songbook that I previously felt were too hard...

Anyway, more to the point:

ThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYou @Rubens I am so grateful for your score!!! Being able to work on this makes me so happy!

Rubens

ShiroKuro

I'd say Miracles is more difficult in its first page which is quite busy with the intertwined voices, and the section that starts at bar 34, with its syncopated rhythm, but other than that it's about at the same difficulty level. I'm not usually a big fan of this kind of music but I like this piece, especially that syncopated section, exquisite. And yes, Ffrench's classic training really shows here, especially his training in Ffrench baroque. (Bad pun)

ShiroKuro

@Rubens that makes sense. I'm really enjoying your comments, they're very helpful!

Oh btw I forgot to say, today I forced myself to just work on measures 1 through 12 (m12 is 2nd line on page 2). So I haven't gotten to m34 yet. But yesterday, I was plodding through the whole thing and just drowning in the notes. I think that's why I found it so hard, I couldn't find the musical thoughts.

Today, zeroing on that section, it went much better!

Oh, one more btw Rubens, I'm glad you like this piece! It's been driving me crazy for a year now, wanting to play it! 😃

Rubens Ffrench baroque.

😆 😆

@rogerch glad to hear you're enjoying it too! I'll let you know when I move past m13. 😅

rogerch

ShiroKuro Also, @rogerch I’m curious what you might have to say, since you’re playing this without knowing the original. What tempo do you think you’re playing at?

The first two times I played through, I just forged ahead as well as I could. I didn't get the voicing right and I stumbled through the trickier rhythms. Tempo was probably half speed.

Later in the evening I analyzed the piece some more so I could play more accurately. There were two patterns that I struggled to understand: measure 13 and others like it, and measure 37 and others like it. In both cases there is an eighth rest that I mistook for a 16th rest so there didn't seem to be enough 16th notes in the measures. Once I realized those were eighth rests it made sense.

I worked for a while on those two patterns and then played through a couple more times paying more attention to voicing. It was a lot harder than my first read throughs. If I decide to learn this piece it's going to take a lot of time and effort (it always does! 🙂). This is a lovely piece and it would be worth it!

Rubens

rogerch

Yes the great syncopated parts. It may help to add barlines to divide those bars into 4 beats to learn them properly.

ShiroKuro

So, here's a question... for @Rubens and @rogerch but also anyone else who might be reading...

Do you think there would a benefit to spending some time analyzing this piece and maybe writing in chord names, with the goal of that being to "play the chords" rather than "play the notes"? (If you see what I mean, I don't mean I would play a block chord where something is written arpeggiated).

I thought I would benefit from doing that with Sept Song, but I never did and eventually I got the notes into my fingers such that now I'm playing the music of it rather than just playing the notes.

With Miracles, of course, I've only spent two days on it so far, so there's not really anything wrong with focusing on playing the notes at this stage.

But I wonder if this piece, even more than Sept Song, would benefit from that kind of approach.

What do you think?

Rubens

ShiroKuro
My answer: absolutely.

I even thought of transcribing it in "fake book" version, because I believe this is how the piece was composed. Only the melody, the occasional secondary melodies,.and the harmonies are set in stone, the rest just flows with it.

rogerch

ShiroKuro Do you think there would a benefit to spending some time analyzing this piece and maybe writing in chord names, with the goal of that being to "play the chords" rather than "play the notes"?

This sounds like a good idea to me. Not just to learn this piece, but to work on being able to instantly look at the notes and recognize the chords. I recognize simple chords when sight reading and I find it really helpful. For non-diatonic chords I’m not there yet but I’m working on it.

ShiroKuro

Ok, I will try this.

I am such a strong reader, I never do that kind of thing.

I wish you had access to other scores by Ffrench, because I'd love to hear your thoughts about how this piece is different and similar to other music of his. I do think this piece, and Sept Song, were largely improvised, and I suspect that's the real reason why they haven't been included in his official score collections. But other pieces strike me as more "traditional" and their written versions seem to suggest that.

At the same time, he has pieces that are similar (ish) to Miracles, very flowy and chord-based, but those are included in his score books... I'm not at home right now, but I'll look later and see if there are one or two to compare....

Rubens

ShiroKuro

One thing to keep in mind also is that when artists record such pieces it doesn't sound as improvised because the recordings are often edited. But if they play it live you can hear "inconsistencies" that don't take anything away from the beauty of the music.

ShiroKuro

Rubens One thing to keep in mind also is that when artists record such pieces it doesn't sound as improvised because the recordings are often edited. But if they play it live you can hear "inconsistencies" that don't take anything away from the beauty of the music.

Sure, but these are all pieces that I have found my way to from listening to his recordings (rather than starting with the score and then seeking out a recording) so that's what I'm basing my impressions on...

For example, Ffrench has some pieces with strings or with a full orchestra. Those don't sound improvised, and the piano solo score doesn't look improvised.

But in the score for Sept Song (which isn't his official score but it's a transcription of his recording) there are sections which repeat the same musical thought but with the kind of minor variations that to me suggest improvising...

So what I'm thinking of here is whether it makes sense to view Miracles as improvised but other pieces of his as not...

ShiroKuro

rogerch Not just to learn this piece, but to work on being able to instantly look at the notes and recognize the chords. I recognize simple chords when sight reading and I find it really helpful.

I am a pretty strong sightreader for the kinds of pieces I usually play (no surprise there of course!) I don't consciously name chords while playing (just like I don't consciously name individual notes while playing). But I definitely pick up those patterns...

Here's something I'm playing right now that I would say is very easy to sightread and very easy to find the chords inside of the notes

Painting the Sun, by David Lanz

Again, like the piece I posted a snippet from above, Wind, this one has no inner voices and just overall much easier. Also, the LH is sooo repetitive, I can practically put it on autopilot.

Ahh, I think that's why it will be helpful to do some chord analysis on Miracles: those inner voices make it harder to see what's happening in the score compared to the score for a piece like Wind or Painting the Sun....

And the same goes for Sept Song, I had to really work to get that into my fingers. So I will need to do the same with Miracles....

Rubens

ShiroKuro
It sure makes sense.
Even in classical music, there are parts where those accompaniments could be played differently from the score, when they serve as a tapestry of overtones (e.g., parts of Scriabin Etude Op.42 no.5).

Sgisela

ShiroKuro for pieces with multiple voices, I think it’s also helpful to have very clear in your head what the different voices are, because if you don’t have that clarity, then when you play it, that lack of clarity is quite apparent, and things can become garbled and/or lost. For me, it’s very helpful to spend some real time practicing the different voices on their own, which helps me hear and understand them individually, before trying to understand how they relate to each other. Visually, you can use different colored highlighters to mark the different voices, which may help clarify the musical lines in a visual way. I have the impression that you’re a pretty visual learner!

Sgisela

ShiroKuro also if you end up redistributing notes, it can be helpful to re-write things so that the score looks more like what your hands are doing. For notes here and there, it is pretty simple to white notes out and bubble notes in, whether on printed scores or through your favorite score reading app. It can take some time, but having it written out in a way that reflects what your hands are doing can really decrease the cognitive load of reading.

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