I watched some of your recordings and I think your technique is very relaxed for your current level. You have nothing to worry about. The pain is most likely from overuse as you switch on muscle groups that are not used to work together. I had this kind of pain sometimes too and the best way to deal with it is to take a break and then work on something else.

It is commendable that you're trying to build solid foundations at the beginning but in a way I understand some of what your teachers were saying. You're not really going to injure yourself playing Alfred's. At some point when you have to play faster runs or do weird finger contortions or just play ornaments you may face some kind of brick wall - not like having pain after doing something for hours but like you just cannot physically execute the specific movement required. That's when the relaxation is really going to help.

Well, it's great that you found a way. I really do empathize as I had the same as a beginner. I was eager to practice for hours and wasn't really prepared for it but in the end I found ways to make it better (mainly by taking breaks). Good luck with your practice!

@Pallas - I understand your focus on pain/injury. However, my advice is to be very mindful of places where you are having issues. If you are struggling with a spot, I donโ€™t think itโ€™s all that helpful to practice it endlessly and think that by doing so, it will at some point come together and work. Rather, this is a road to injury and frustration. You need to sort out how you need to adjust your movements so that it works more easily. This may mean changing fingering, it may mean moving differently between notes, or other things. But if you canโ€™t sort this out for yourself fairly quickly, then circle the spot and ask your teacher about it, show him/her your struggles, and let them guide you on how to adjust how you approach the passage. But donโ€™t spend hours struggling through very difficult practice.

I think being proactive with your teacher about โ€˜problem spots,โ€™ rather than waiting for observations of tension, will help focus both of you on technical problems that can really improve your playing.

Anyways, thatโ€™s my 2 centsโ€ฆ

Pallas I swear, nothing about piano has come naturally to me. Nothing has seemed like common sense until after I hear it, then it finally clicks. I have struggled every step of the way! ๐Ÿ˜

Me too! But the fact that itโ€™s hard makes it rewarding when things finally come together. I embrace the struggle!

Pallas Wow, what a great video (Marian Lee). I'd like her for my teacher. LOL. Even though I couldn't play any of that music, I found the "finger alignment" portion very interesting, and will be checking that out the next time I sit down to play something.

Ithaca Iโ€™m also struggling particularly with chords, probably b/c I developed the bad habit of parking my left hand stretched out for long periods of time while my right was off figuring out fingerings or whatever. Now that Iโ€™m trying to be careful about returning everything to neutral quickly, itโ€™s going a little better, but I still have a long way to go.

This! I have to constantly remind myself to do so. My teacher has to constantly remind me as well, lol. I can return to neutral after a chord if I'm mindful of it, but in the heat of playing through a piece it can easily fall by the wayside. But it is worth keeping on trying. It will pay off in the long run.

My bigger issue is with chords that require some unnatural-for-me fingering on inner voices (usually octaves with inner voices). I am stubborn in that I don't like the idea of not playing exactly what is in the score, but my hands/fingers are kind of beat up already, so I need to remind myself (and my teacher says the same) that it's not worth injuring myself. A teacher is good for suggesting which note to leave out, if one must, or different fingering.

    Stub I have to constantly remind myself to do so. My teacher has to constantly remind me as well, lol. I can return to neutral after a chord if I'm mindful of it, but in the heat of playing through a piece it can easily fall by the wayside. But it is worth keeping on trying. It will pay off in the long run.

    I think it is possible to play with tension (we all need at least some) without it leading to pain. What it will affect is tone. If one fails to return to neutral after playing a chord, chances are things are going to start sounding plonky after a bit. That momentary bit of relaxation does wonders for tone production.

    Pallas, thanks for posting the books and video. I'm off to watch the video.

    Ithaca Quick note, and a question.

    Note: W/o some tension, we'd all be lying like blobs of jelly on the floor. ๐Ÿ˜‚ But too much tension, at the wrong place, for too long, causes long term damage to me. I'll elaborate more when I have the time.

    Could you elaborate on tension leading to plonkiness? After 20 years mostly playing on a digital, my touch has gone to h***. (When I'm trying to play something light and delicate, it still sounds like an elephant attempting ballet. It's appalling.) I was pretty sure it was because of all the shortcomings of the digital, but now your comment has me wondering if it's also my uncontrolled tension. Tension -> plonkiness would explain why the only time my touch seems to improve at all is when I'm playing super slow and super quiet - under those circumstances I can make sure that every note is played carefully with proper alignment and no excess tension.

    Yes, we need some tension to play in the first place. Sustained tension is the harmful kind, to my mind.

    Tension leading to plonkiness. I'm glad you asked. I made the statement mostly out of observation of my own playing (๐Ÿ˜). Thinking about it more closely, I think excess and sustained tension locks up not just your fingers/hands (for example playing chords), but the whole mechanism--forearm, shoulder, etc. When that happens your approach to the keys will be thrown off, i.e., you will lose a great deal of control of how hard you hit the keys. You will literally be hitting the keys rather than stroking them, more often than not. Anyone else have thoughts about it?

      Stub I think excess and sustained tension locks up not just your fingers/hands (for example playing chords), but the whole mechanism--forearm, shoulder, etc. When that happens your approach to the keys will be thrown off, i.e., you will lose a great deal of control of how hard you hit the keys. You will literally be hitting the keys rather than stroking them, more often than not. Anyone else have thoughts about it?

      I'm not coming at this from the "I need to avoid tension" angle, but I think that is part of the equation. Currently my teacher is trying to get me to 'free up' my elbows. My tendency (often) is to hold my elbows and forearms fairly still. So this past week I've been focusing on moving them around a lot...too much I'm sure, but he usually has me exaggerate these things at first. I am picking up on a difference in the sound when I do this. I can't explain it very well other than to say that it seems to sound better. In my lesson he told me that my playing was more controlled (with increased elbow movement) and he also noted an improvement in the sound. So that's my very unscientific way of agreeing with your hypothesis. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Ithaca Could you elaborate on tension leading to plonkiness? After 20 years mostly playing on a digital, my touch has gone to h***. (When I'm trying to play something light and delicate, it still sounds like an elephant attempting ballet. It's appalling.) I was pretty sure it was because of all the shortcomings of the digital, but now your comment has me wondering if it's also my uncontrolled tension. Tension -> plonkiness would explain why the only time my touch seems to improve at all is when I'm playing super slow and super quiet - under those circumstances I can make sure that every note is played carefully with proper alignment and no excess tension

      I don't play with a perfect technique by any means, but I think I'm not too bad because I never face tiredness/pain. So hopefully, my advice would be helpful. ๐Ÿ™‚

      I think of the minimum possible effort needed to do something. For that, you first start with approximately the least effort you can use to play something at a given moment. While you're playing it, think starting from the fingertip. If you are raising the finger and striking down, that is "unnecessary effort". Then, go over to the wrist. If you are straining the wrist to keep it in position as opposed to keeping it relatively loose, that is unnecessary effort. Then, the forearm. If you are tensing the forearm, it could probably be solved by aligning your hand better (so that it's not at an angle, or too high or low). Then, the upper arm: if you feel like you're using your biceps or triceps to "hold" the notes, that is generally unnecessary. Then, the shoulder and upper back: if you are raising your shoulder, that is unnecessary effort.

      First, try to do the best you can right now. That is your baseline. Now, there is only so much that you can control voluntarily at a given moment. Sometimes, for instance, I will think: "Keep the pinky low! Why are you curling it?!" But it keeps curling. That is because the brain associates whole movements to each other, and doesn't have full independent control of each muscle in the body (and never will). This is called "co-activation". This is what we end up fighting when trying to avoid tension, because the set of movements involved in playing the piano are "not natural" for the body. For instance, a common thing you see is that if someone has been knitting for several decades, their fingers likely tend to fall into that sort of position out of habit. These habits will not resolve themselves instantly, but the first step is to be aware of them.

      Once you are aware of them, there is a gradual process which takes several weeks which allows you to rework those movements. You would try to reinforce what you think is better (in my case, to not curl the pinky) in a number of different ways. The goal is not to be perfect; it is to constantly reinforce the movement and do it a little better every day. How much better it gets each day is variable; some things can click very quickly, while others can take months or even years. But it certainly does get better.


      Now, forget what I said above; all of that is just the mechanism. What would you do in practice?

      Your playing is controlled while at a slow tempo. I would suggest playing small chunks, like one measure or phrase at a time at a moderate tempo while trying to keep the same relaxed sensation in your hands. (I wouldn't go up to a fast tempo because the movements change, but at a moderate tempo, they will still be similar enough to a slow tempo.)

      Once you are more familiar with how it feels to play with less tension, another suggestion would be to imagine how you want it to sound. You want it to sound light and relaxed, maybe like a Mozart piece on the piano. It is a very useful strategy to just focus on the sound and try to "let it happen". (Molly Gebrian mentions this too.)

      From my very very limited experience, I find having my fingers touch the key before playing the key really helped reducing tension. It seems that my tension come from the finger not sure about the next move when it's in the air. But once the finger(s) can feel the key, it can simply rest and relax, even for a brief moment.

      Interestingly, in YT lessons on Let's Play Piano Methods channel, I noticed Gale's fingers doing this because I can see the hammers of some of the not played keys bobble just a little bit, indicating those fingers are indeed resting on the key surface.

      Ithaca
      My last teacher, Peter Feuchtwanger, REALLY helped me get rid of unnecessary tension.
      Here is the first of his 18 "healing exercises" to develop a functional technique.

      ...and a comment and demonstration on the 2nd

      NB: the hand returns to "neutral position" after each excursion or extension
      ...and here is PF, himself, demonstrating "The Parachute" at about 2:35 in this video.
      NB: how the hand expands and contracts.

      DM me if you have questions. My privilege to help and pass on what PF taught me.