Long hours?

ranjit

How many of you have practiced long hours at some point? I have heard people who say that working long hours is counterproductive and working fewer hours more efficiently is the way to go, while others say that working long hours is how to get the most done and what all the greats did in their formative years.

Books and anecdotes are also divided on this point.

SouthPark

My approach for my own music has never been long hours. It's mainly just in moderation sort of thing. But what I do know is - after a really long time of building up experience, ie. accumulation of experience from learning and practising and application etc over a relatively long time, the results --- eventually that is -- is definitely productive. Somewhat magical even.

I can understand each person has their own approach - and some may well be involving super relatively long hours - practice sessions that is. As long as they're ok with it - whether they find it productive or counter-productive - is ok too.

For my approach - it had just been basically - put in however much you want, but don't overdo things (which is subjective, because each person is different) - and on a long-term perspective (eg. years and years etc) - just give it enough time and effort - regardless of how long it takes, and provided one keeps pushing on and learning and practising and applying and building - regardless of enjoying it or not -- but in my case, I enjoy it immensely, and I have unlimited patience -- the plan had always been -- keep accumulating and accumulating, and it will certainly amount to something eventually. And for me - I find that it has amounted to at least something very nice that I'm really happy with.

And of course - listen to lots of music - listening to various details, and enjoying, as they provide excellent examples for learning.

I know that each person is different - each with their own situation, not just in music, but with anything.

Bellyman

I remember at about the age of 8 or 9, someone gave me a thick book of Mozart sonatas. Over summer break, I do remember of spending 4, 5, even 6 hours a day at the piano, not because I was being forced to practice, but because I wanted to play. I made real progress and advancement during that period, probably more so than any before or since.

One does tend to get better / improve at what they spend a lot of time doing, especially if they are at least somewhat challenged by whatever it is they're doing. Could be lifting weights. Could be cooking or baking. Could be painting pictures. Could be playing the piano. 🙂

I think motivation is important, actually wanting to play, not having to out of obligation or some other coercion. Enjoying it matters. I also do think there may be a point at which fatigue may set in and further playing may become counterproductive. I would think that would be when a lot of the frustration and wrong notes would come to the forefront and yeah, it's probably time to take a break at that point.

It's kind of an individual thing. I'm not sure anyone can really say what's 100% best for others. We can share our experiences in hopes that they may resonate with someone else, perhaps be helpful.

Animisha

Bellyman Over summer break, I do remember of spending 4, 5, even 6 hours a day at the piano, not because I was being forced to practice, but because I wanted to play. I made real progress and advancement during that period, probably more so than any before or since.

I think that this was very fortunate - a young musical mind wide open, learning very much. But it cannot be deliberately repeated without the young brain and the intrinsic motivation.

thepianoplayer416

Depending on the piece I'm working on. Sometimes I come across a difficult piece and I'd work on a small section for up to 2 1/2 hours until I get it and relax for the rest of the day.

Simonb

Hi Ranjit

The most I've ever done was 2-3 hours a day. I did this when I was in my 20s for a while, and have had periods doing it since, but as you get older it becomes harder to concentrate for that length of time. I never had the time or motivation to practise for longer than that when I was working.

I'm now in my early 60s (and retired), and if I want to practise a lot I do it in 2 or 3 sessions, each less than an hour.

Cheers

TC3

I'm not a pro, just a hobbyist, so I'm not sure my experience is relevant ...

My ideal practice day (which I manage better at some times than others, mostly thanks to my work schedule ... ) maxxes out at two hours a day for piano, with a little time left over to noodle on my other instruments. I feel like I make pretty good progress with that, though I could see how a bit more time could be helpful.

I doubt more than three hours a day would do much for me. I think my brain fills up at a certain point and then I'm just "chopping wood" (as I once heard someone describe useless practice). I've also wrestled with RSI since I was 18 (I'm ... a bit older now ... ) and have to be careful not to overdo it and have all that flare up.

During my brief time as a music major in college (upright bass, jazz and classical), the faculty had certain expectations for us in terms of practice. If you were a performance major, you were supposed to practice five hours a day; if you were non-performance (e.g., music education), it was three hours a day. This was only for your primary lessons, though. You were also expected to spend time on the ensemble music (everyone was in at least one ensemble, some folks were in two or three) and anything related to classes (e.g., everyone had to take some basic piano classes, and education majors took "tech" classes in the various instrument families). Plus go to classes, work your part-time job, etc. In reality, NO ONE ever got that much practice in on a regular basis. I'd guess it was closer to half that. Yet, most everyone managed to make serious progress and even graduate to respectable music careers.

One last anecdote. Joshua Bell visited and gave a talk while I was there. He was asked how much time he spent practicing, and he said "Not that much, only about three hours a day." Seemed to work out for him okay ...

HeartKeys

I've read many empirical research articles (not necessarily piano-related), on the psychology of learning and retention. And the (general) conclusion is that there's a diminishing return after ₁ hour or so of focus, and it's (generally) ideal to take breaks away from that particular focused task; then come back to it.

Versus an all-in-one learning/practice. If I recall correctly, it's lots to do with how much cognitive/ attention capacity we have at a certain period of time.

Perhaps an effective way to test this theory, at the individual level, is literally to test it. For example, trying a week or so of 8+ practice days, with no rest. Then following month, try a week or so of taking 5 min breaks between each 30 min period, etc. And gauge how effective the the learning is in each of those tests.

This helps to apply whatever concepts we read about via research, anecdotes, articles; and see what works best--- for our unique selves.

Bellyman

I remember one little thing from when I was a kid. I would practice what I was supposed to practice. And then at the end, I had one or two little "nothing" kind of pieces, usually quite short, like "Mutt & Jeff" or similar, that I just HAD to throw in there. Not sure why. Mom used to find it slightly irritating. LOL!! But I kinda think she always knew when I was about to be done. 😃 Probably my kid version of the little 10 second blur of music that always happens at the end of a Bugs Bunny film. 😉

Rubens

One of the reasons many pros practice long hours is because of the size of their repertoire.

twocats

Rubens One of the reasons many pros practice long hours is because of the size of their repertoire.

I used to wonder how anyone could practice for 8 hours a day but I really understood it once I started learning major chamber works. If it's 40 minutes of music at performance tempo but I can't play it anywhere close to speed during the learning process, that means I have to put in a lot of hours just to even get through the piece. When I'm at this stage, 4-6 hours in a day is the norm if I sit down at the piano.

Bellyman

Rubens, I can relate! Well... sorta... others sometimes call me a "pro" but I don't necessarily put myself all that high up.

Something I am noticing about my current playing (mostly three piece band, piano, bass & drums with the bass player doing some vocals... we have a lot of tunes in some of our gigs. We've done a couple of gigs that were 4 hours long and no repeats of any tunes. So, if I want to just play every tune in those set lists like I'd play them live, it takes at least 4 hours just to play them all one time. Often, I will pick out things that need a little work and spend longer on them. And sometimes I'll break up the gig set lists into sections and not do them all at one sitting. But if I"m going to be ready to play any number on that list at any time, I need to keep myself refreshed on it.

I'm not the type that can remember exactly how I played something 3 months ago if I've not played it since. I might come pretty close if I'm really familiar with the tune or maybe not. If faced with playing tunes I haven't played in several months, I can have a hard time remembering the correct B section, how I transition to it, that kind of thing, especially songs that are somewhat similar. Don't wanna end up playing a totally different song than intended and that could happen. I don't use music or even lead sheets. I have a list of songs in front of me with only minimal info such as the key, the tempo, and sometimes other minor details such as whether there are vocals, or a keyword to remind me of a special start or ending.

While playing for 4+ hours at a shot is tiring, sometimes it's kinda necessary for me to plow through the material. I can imagine someone playing long classical works would also end up playing for extended periods of time. I never performed a concerto live with an orchestra but can only imagine the rehearsals.

SouthPark

Anyone heard of Ling Ling? 'They' say she practises violin for forty hours a day. And to get stereotypical - in which we probably shouldn't -- I wouldn't be surprised if Ling Ling plays piano too, as those that are very good at violin are very good at piano too. So if she plays violin and piano equally enthusiastically and seriously, then that could be practising eighty hours a day.

Ling Ling 40 hours

Origins - 'twoset violin'

twocats

SouthPark Origins - 'twoset violin'

They are so hilarious, I especially love the Hilary Hahn video 😂

AaronSF

"Ling Ling is a fictional character created by Brett Yang and Eddy Chen of the YouTube channel TwoSet Violin. Ling Ling can be described as a fictional violin entity of sorts, a perfect prodigy violinist who defies known universal laws by practicing 40 hours a day. Ling Ling's gender is unknown. The concept of Ling Ling acts as a perfect and unreachable standard for all musicians in terms of playing, practice, talent, and the like."

[https://twosetviolin.fandom.com/wiki/Ling_Ling](https://)

🤣

SouthPark

AaronSF Ling Ling's gender is unknown.

Technically, it indeed is unknown. But like hello kitty, where most people assume 'it' is a cat (due to long whiskers and ears on top of the head ok ... assume 'she' is a cat) .... Ling Ling is a chinese name that had traditionally always been for females. I know that these days - tradition no longer applies in various areas, and that is just fine - as long as it's all good. And even if for bad, it will get sorted eventually.