After reading an 'op-ed' article this morning I was pondering motivation. Different people have different reasons for wanting to become competent piano players. The writer clearly wanted to produce beautiful music, of the like he listens to being performed by professionals.

Here's the article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/24/why-i-quit-learning-piano-retirement-music

Is that actually a reasonable goal for an amateur?

I have no desire to compose or perform, but I do love to explore music. I like to be able to create a musically satisfying interpretation while trying to honour the composer's intent. I hope learn new things on the journey, and have a wonderful teacher who has a very academic background to draw upon so we can discuss everything from early music theory, to how differences in piano technology may impact the intended playing style, to the musical heritage and influences of the composer. So far, there isn't an end goal piece.

What gets you turning back to your piano day after day?

    TLH21 Is that actually a reasonable goal for an amateur?

    In his essay, he aspired to ā€œmasterā€ the piano and some piece(s). No that is not a reasonable goal for most.

    If he aspired to be good at, or improve significantly, then that would be reasonable.

    TLH21 What gets you turning back to your piano day after day?

    For me itā€™s my ability to figure things out by ear, so itā€™s generally less frustrating for me, since my expectations (to sound ā€œgoodā€ by ear) match my skills. As an example, yesterday I figured out in a few mins some passages in Rach 2ā€“ the more melodic, simpler note parts. Iā€™m not interested in mastering the part, but moreso knowing what chords/notes are played and improvising to it. I find joy in that.

    If the author of the article you shared were in my shoes though, he probably would be less satisfied since he didnā€™t ā€œmasterā€ that part.

    But I am satisfied, which is what matters šŸ™‚

    On a more meta level, I started playing/ learning more for cognitive reasonsā€¦ to stay mentally sharp, and piano is certainly one means to doing so.

      TLH21 Hmm. I thought the article was a bit depressing! I do think his goal(s) were a bit misguided. Anyone imagining "going from complete novice to virtuoso," on any timetable, is sure to be disappointed.

      Originally my motivation for returning to the piano was simple: my symphonic band needed someone to cover the piano parts and I wanted to be that person (I play clarinet). Unfortunately I missed the window of opportunity; someone else volunteered and I don't know when or if I'll get the chance to do it. But once I started playing again, I was totally hooked and just could not see myself stopping.

      TLH21 So far, there isn't an end goal piece.

      Ditto! I think what keeps me going is an endless and constantly growing list of music that I'm dying to learn. It's immensely satisfying to be able to steadily improve and work through that list (slowly...sometimes painfully slowly). I try to remind myself often how lucky I am to have the time, spare funds, and supportive partner which allows me to have a nice instrument, pay for lessons, and practice for hours a day when I'm not at work. If the only thing that mattered to me was being able to "master" something or to sound anything like a pro, I'm sure I would have given up years ago! I just try to be realistic, within the confines of my perfectionist tendencies...

      Pallas Without a challenge that's deep and compelling enough to really hold my attention, I get depressed and tired.

      I agree. I have played computer games off and on for years...RPG nerd stuff. šŸ˜€ There were a few times long ago when I got stuck and really frustrated. I was able to find cheat codes online, but they weren't just a 'get out of jail free' card for that one spot. It was like endless invulnerability, etc. It was hard to NOT use those codes once I found them, but I ended up losing all interest in the games once they were too easy. I certainly don't have to worry about that happening with piano (still searching for the cheat codes...).

      HeartKeys In his essay, he aspired to ā€œmasterā€ the piano and some piece(s). No that is not a reasonable goal for most.

      It sure can be motivating, though! Nothing wrong with being a concert pianist in your dreams.

      Just read the article. He sounds like a die-hard perfectionist! Sometimes you just need to let go, let the music breathe and enjoy it on its own. Otherwise, you will lose motivation.

      Him learning Claire de Lune in of itself is an accomplishment. I really don't agree with the way he let it not being perfect get to him. If you keep playing, you will likely play it very nicely after 10 years as it matures and as you become more relaxed in your playing. This is starting from the point where he already could play the piece and not from zero. That process in itself is beautiful.

      If you think that your favorite recording is music and the rest is noise, you are doing yourself a disservice imo. Less amazingly played music does still retain its character, just less so. It can be brilliant to hear an amateur play a piece they love which they've been learning for years, even if it doesn't sound like the best concert pianist out there.

        Forty-Five years ago, I might have said, "I want to learn to play piano so I don't have to carry all of that rock band equipment." Six piece band, PA, lights, Hammond organ, huge Acoustic 360 bass amp, monitors, drums, Hohner pianet, stands, on and on. I knew a working pianist, decent player, who had gigs booked forever, cocktail bars, parties, etc., and all he ever had to carry was an attache with sheet music and maybe a change of clothes for formal gigs.

        Thirty-Five years ago, I might have said, "I want to be a pianist so I can meet more pretty girls." A guy I knew played on a Carnival Cruise ship, played 2 hours at lunch, then 4 hours in the evening, for $900 a week, including a room on the boat, and all the food and drink he wanted. He left Ft. Lauderdale on Sunday night, stopped at Key West, Cozumel, Jamaica, some other places I can't remember, and got back the following Sunday morning. He did that for five years, saved a lot of money, met lots of pretty girls.

        Now, I want to play the piano as best I can without becoming a slave to it, without trying to make money with it, so I can make the kinds of sounds with it that I want to hear, and exercise my musical creativity.

        ranjit Sometimes you just need to let go, let the music breathe and enjoy it on its own. Otherwise, you will lose motivation.

        Quoted for truth. I mean, we're never too old to learn. But the keyword is enjoy - especially since many of us are adults who play an instrument as a hobby. Setting standards for ourselves that are too too high is one of the surest ways to lose that joy quickly!

        I enjoyed Classical music when dad played Beethoven Symphonies, Mozart & Haydn records. My exposure to music was limited and I wasn't drawn to a specific instrument. At 5 had an electronic keyboard with 2 octaves and songs for absolute beginners. It's just a toy and not much learning. Then a Yamaha upright arrived in the living room. Mom got me & my sister a teacher. After learning "Twinkle" and performing it in front of relatives, mom thought that nobody in the family showed talent for music. After a month the upright was gone and the family would never own a piano again.

        At 11 a cousin showed me a few beginner songs on a "Made in Canada" Heintzman piano. Tried a few songs and decided the hands coordination was too hard. Wouldn't touch a piano /keyboard for a few decades. My sister started violin in strings class (with viola, cello & bass) in school. A year later I followed. Violin became my main & only instrument. The music teacher said that in order to get further in music, it's a good idea to pick up piano playing. We learned music theory in strings class including intervals & chords but they're not easy or possible to play on a violin or cello.

        After graduation, I listened to piano music on radio frequently. 1985 was the tri-centennery year since the birth of Bach & Handel. Enjoyed listening to the 6 French Suites and especially Keith Jarrett's performance of the "Sarabande" from Suite #3 and mvt 1 from the Italian Concerto in F. There was no immediate plan to start learning piano.

        Sometime ago met a man who started teaching adults to play piano /keyboard. At the time I considered myself too old or passed the prime (before age 10). Got myself a keyboard and started self-learning for the first few years. I needed music for stress relief as well as brain exercise. My sister suggested that I take music appreciation class at a local conservatory. I got myself a teacher instead.

        After starting piano as an adult, much of my music knowledge came from the violin teacher. I learned all the major & minor scales, intervals & chords when the teacher played them on a piano. Between age 5, 11 when I tried piano and the present there is a big gap. I didn't learn enough techniques at a young age to consider myself a restarter. On the other hand, I knew a lot of theory from before so I wasn't a total beginner either.

        My knowledge of music expanded further. In my school days trying to master violin was hard enough. I had no plan of learning piano. Back then the teacher got the students to perform in groups at a year-end recital for the parents. Up to 100 in the audience at most. Playing at friends' gatherings or on a public piano occasionally isn't a big deal. I also make recordings to post on social media like Christmas tunes & "Happy Birthday" when someone's special day comes up.

        At the moment I'm playing the pieces assigned by the teacher & some online sheet music downloads. Many people here play as a hobby than training to be a professional musician. Playing music is not only about doing things properly or perfectly but also having fun experimenting in the process... if you hit the keys a certain way, you get a certain sound sort of thing. There are pieces I liked to learn. Some of them are orchestral pieces or for other instruments. I'd use a computer notation program and make a piano arrangement for me. I'm also flexible with the repertoire. After hearing the old Disney theme from 1940 "When You Wished Upon a Star" on radio, downloaded a copy.

        I like learning to play the piano because it's so hard. I know what it's like to be talented at something, and so I can tell that I'm not particularly talented at piano. But I also like to work hard and I like delayed gratification so the fact that I have a talent deficit to make up for makes it even better. I love the feeling I get after months of work to be able to play a piece well (for an amateur) or improvise or sight read better than I used to. I don't care that the more talented pros and amateurs are better than I am or will ever be. I think if it was easier for me I might not like it as much!

        Of course I also love the music itself, and I feel like learning music helps to slow down the aging of my brain.

        As an adult Iā€™m aware that a few people in the family had dementia before they died. Their quality of life suffered. Regular brain exercise is good and necessary.

        Playing piano as a challenge wasnā€™t my goal when I started piano. Early in life Iā€™ve decided I didnā€™t have the hands coordination for it. Me & my parents had many plans early in life but many didā€™t happen.

        I tend to take lifeā€™s many surprises day by day. Be happy to embrace opportunities that come alongā€¦ go with the flow. Sometime ago met a teacher who said adults can learn pianoā€¦ that we donā€™t have to start young. Gave it a go and never looked back. Ask me if I play piano 3 decades ago Iā€™d tell you probably not for the rest of my life.

        A while ago I was in a piano store trying different keyboards. I played a shortened version of a movie soundtrack. Another visit I played a Bach Sinfonia that I arranged for piano. Wasnā€™t too concerned with the technical aspects of playing including big jumps, playing melodic lines at the same time and using foot pedal. The only thing on my mind was that certain things in life are meant to happen. 20 years ago I did not plan to include either piece into my piano repertoire. When I was ready, I started learning them.

        I wanted to sink my teeth into something and totally master it.

        I would like to record the entire set of Liszt Transcendental Etudes one day.

          To the extent that I am still sane, it is because of music. It is the one thing which takes me completely away from a world which I mostly find incomprehensible. And of all the instruments I have played/tried, the piano is the most satisfying to me. There is such a vast wealth of music at every level and for every mood. The journey of a lifetime. šŸ˜Š

            Adagiette
            Definitely find playing piano (keyboard) everyday comforting. There is so much negativity in the news including conflicts all over, climate change like heatwaves, floods, etc. Sometimes I'd be playing for more than an hour to take my mind off the problems in the world.

            A lot of what I do today wasn't planned years ago. When learning violin in school I didn't anticipate playing challenging pieces like Bach "double" conerto in Dm as violin duet, Bach solo partitas, Paganini Caprices or Vittorio Monti "Czardas". I would play the assigned pieces and try to make the best of it.

            After starting piano, I didn't anticipate playing anything challenging or specific pieces. When I'm ready, I just learn them. Coming from a non-musical family, my knowledge of piano music growing up was limited to "Twinkle" and Beethoven "FĆ¼r Elise". Much of my knowledge of music was picked up in the learning process.

            My life experience is like the song sung by Doris Day in 1956:
            QuƩ serƔ, serƔ.
            Whatever will be, will be.
            The future's not ours to see.
            QuƩ serƔ, serƔ.
            What will be, will be.

            ranjit "If you think that your favorite recording is music and the rest is noise, you are doing yourself a disservice imo."

            I really like this statement.

            • So that instead of dozing off on the couch right after dinner, I can stay awake šŸ˜‰
            • Maybe to stave off any potential early onset dementia?
            • Wife thinks this is a healthier and safer hobby than my previous one.
            • Learning to read and play music could bring more insight and enjoyment to my listening?

              I mentioned something like the following in another thread - or other threads. Like lots of people, I love music. And also wanted to try my hand at either making new music, or playing music in certain ways that I wanted - musical freedom etc.

              Piano is one instrument that allows one person in real-time to sound sort of like a mini-orchestra. Ok -- not 'literally' a mini orchestra, but provides enough sound and activity in the instrument music to express ourselves in a very nice way. Sure - it can't pitch bend in real-time with a desired profile like we can with our voice or bow-string instrument, and can't change volume level of a sustained note like selected bow string instruments or own human voice etc. Although, the piano has features that makes it a force in music. A musical force that produces musical magic.

              I foresaw that if I put in enough time and effort - hard yards (ie. learning, developing etc) - then I would eventually reach a self-knowingly, self-awaringly special stage or stages with the piano and music, even though I know that music is within us, and much of that has been accumulated through learning from people's music, and from teachers (directly and indirectly).

              Spend enough time, regardless of weeks, days, months, years, many many many many years - in not only playing script music, but also in areas of music theory, composition, listening, relative pitch piano playing, finger drill exercises, music sequence memory work etc, and we usually do know that we will eventually get to some very special state in piano/music. And there are various (infinite) special states. The main thing I have found is - no matter how long it takes - just keep learning and practising, and developing in piano and music - and we will keep progressing. Just playing even a few notes of tunes that we really like a lot - with 1 finger or one hand on the piano is special and fantastic already in my opinion. And people will just keep building and building. That's what naturally happens.

              Patience - is generally important. Patience, and simply - enjoy working on things that we don't yet know how to do. That's part of my enjoyment actually. I like the feeling of not (yet) being able to do various things - and then those amazing feelings that follow when certain things eventually start coming together. It's quite a special feeling that people keep encountering at various moments in their piano/music adventures.

              I play the piano (play piano) every day because I (like a lot of people here) love pianos and music, and know the unbelievable 'power' that a piano gives us in one form of music expression. I just say one form, because there are other amazing instruments too - those other ones, eg. bow-string instruments, guitar etc, which are very very very expressive too. But it does also go back to one feature of the piano - where a piano has that polyphony that makes us -- in real time -- sound like a 'mini orchestra', plus has its own incredible nuances, timbre, range etc. Piano -- very very formidable indeed. It lets me play tunes in a way that I find to be very very enjoyable to do. And I have heaps of enjoyable activities - and piano/music is among one of those very special enjoyable ones that I love to do.

              At PW - I did mention there is a 'dark' side - but not because of me, as I'm not on the 'dark' side. I'm honest in that a long time ago - although it sometimes still does happen -- you know such as at dinner functions, or gatherings etc, with other families - which can be family, friends, unknown people etc -- where we used to always get the inevitable, where there would be at least one family - and I don't mean relatives or acquaintances (although it can be too) -- it can be just unknowns, or newly-introduced people, at the gathering/function etc, where they just cannot wait to initiate their own talk about their kids etc and say - 'they did their grade so and so in piano and/or violin etc, and they just finished dancing and drama lessons, and won swimming/athletic comp etc, number 1 in everything/school/math etc and they're really good at piano'. You know -- the can't wait to skite, brag, show-off, 'dominate', centre-of-attention etc -- you know - the 'status'/narcissist/class thing. I just listen - and don't even mention piano at all, and don't even say that I play piano or into music etc. But that 'dark' side actually gave me a secondary reason (which isn't actually important of course) to 'practise' and develop. It's not an important driving force, and I have never had to use it in local life - as I really don't want to. And that secondary driver or motivator is for making a statement (if ever needed) to say that - they're not the only ones that are 'good' at playing the piano and music etc. It's somewhat 'dark' (not sinister of course) - but it's something that some people might even relate to. And once again - I'm not that sort. I'm only just mentioning it.

              First and foremost in my case is ... love of piano and piano playing and music.

                I took up piano about a dozen years ago in my early 40s. At the time, I was playing my upright bass quite a bit (classical in a local community orchestra and jazz in some small combos) but I wanted something more self-sufficient. I had tried classical guitar for a couple of years but I was TERRIBLE at it, so I thought I'd give piano a try. I had dabble in piano a few times earlier in life but it never really spoke to me then. This time, I fell in love with it right away and seemed to have some small aptitude for it (at least compared to classical guitar).

                I don't have any illusions that I'll ever play at a professional level but I have a lot of fun with it. I think I have realistic enough goals, such as coffee house gigs and garage band jam sessions (I'm mostly interested in blues music and other adjacent non-classical styles such as rock). The good news is that one doesn't have to play at a high technical level in order to make good music. It's an enriching and rewarding hobby and it makes me glad that I exist. šŸ™‚


                Enthusiastic but mediocre amateur.

                SouthPark Piano is one instrument that allows one person in real-time to sound sort of like a mini-orchestra. Ok -- not 'literally' a mini orchestra, but provides enough sound and activity in the instrument music to express ourselves in a very nice way.

                SouthPark Although, the piano has features that makes it a force in music. A musical force that produces musical magic.

                Amen, echo, +1, to those statements. There are so many incredible instruments available to learn and play. The piano, meanwhile has its distinction for its ability to play a plethora of notes - and sustain them - in unparalleled ways. And the ability to hit 10 notes simultaneously - if desired. As such, the mini-orchestra description/ analogy resonates with me a lot. On that same vein, I recently played Adagio for Strings on the piano, and it worked out quite well. It's really cool being on an instrument that can mimic/ emulate an orchestra, even if it's not going to sound precisely the same timbre-wise. But the piano can capture the "gist" of almost any music, even for music not originally intended for piano.

                While on the topic of piano instrument itself, another thing I like is, the ease of sounding "not terrible." By that, I mean it would take me perhaps months or years to even play a decent note on a violin without sounding like scratching a chalkboard. With the piano, it's (relatively) easy to get started, and operate at a beginner level, and sound decent, or at least, "not terrible." In my eyes, the piano is both the easiest (to play super-basic), and the hardest (to play virtuoso).

                I could go on about my thoughts on above. Anyway thanks @SouthPark for bringing up the instrument-capability aspect of the piano.

                  For that guy in the article - we don't know enough about him. But he does reckon this -- 'And playing wasnā€™t giving me the same satisfaction I felt when I heard beautiful music played by others.'

                  From the article itself, it does look like he gained quite a lot of experience in playing the piano.

                  At the end, it just looks like he is/was not doing what is/was required to keep progressing/advancing/building - which is simply to keep going (no matter what) - with the help of relevant resources (teacher/information/tutorials/practice etc). So maybe a case of - if he hasn't got the time and effort or drive etc, and not put any more time etc into it, then nothing is going to happen, and he won't know what nice breakthroughs he could actually make in the piano and music area.

                  The nice thing is -- just because he says he quit, and the piano is silent, it doesn't mean that the piano will remain that way, or that he won't start up again later, even if he implied permanent quitting. He's always welcome to un-quit later.

                  HeartKeys I could go on about my thoughts on above. Anyway thanks @SouthPark for bringing up the instrument-capability aspect of the piano.

                  You're most welcome HeartKeys. Thanks for adding those other very relatable and excellent comments about piano. That comment about ease of sounding 'not terrible' was so excellently-put. Piano is certainly one of those somewhat self-intuitive instruments - where a beginner can indeed just hop on, and have fun working out and remembering what sequence of keys to push in order to get something going - such as a tune they like. The one-to-one finger to note mapping/translation - and the repeated 12 notes pitch pattern along the keyboard - is quite convenient! And which is quite unique. That gets the foot into the door of the piano/music world very nicely.

                  The ease of 'not sounding terrible' is accurate.

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