How to cram learning pieces?

ranjit

Sometimes I try to learn 8-16 measures of a piece on the day of a piano class. So if the class is in the evening, I would try to practice in the morning/afternoon. This has never really worked for me so far as I only feel "settled" in a piece at least 1-2 days after learning the notes. Does anyone have any ideas on how to cram pieces on the same day?

Stub

What would be the point? You might just fool your teacher, but you won't fool yourself. You really do need a night's sleep to consolidate memory. Several nights of sleep, even better--as you already know.

ranjit This [cramming on the same day] has never really worked for me so far as I only feel "settled" in a piece at least 1-2 days after learning the notes.

Josephine

It's not easy on the same day. Your brain needs time to process the information.

What works best for me is learning 2 measures, take a short break away from the piano, play the measures again (and again and again and again) learn next two measures, take a short break, play them again, play all 4 measures again. Learn next two measures. And so on. The breaks are important. They don't have to be long, 5 or 10 minutes is enough.

thepianoplayer416

Depending on the piece up to 3 lines at a time. More difficult pieces I’ll focus on 1 phrase at a time.

shawarma_bees

Sleep is really important for learning and memory consolidation, particularly for motor skills like learning an instrument. In fact, early sleep shortly after practice (right before bed) can further enhance memory consolidation, allowing the brain to more effectively solidify newly learned skills. For maximally time-efficient learning right before a piano class, I'd recommend spending 15 or so minutes the night before learning a few measures, then spending another 15 minutes the next morning practicing the same section.

BartK

Stub What would be the point?

Exactly my thought. I'm not sure what is the real world use case for doing that.

Maybe an extreme situation like this...

MRC But sometimes you are put in this situation from no fault of your own. I've had to cover for colleagues suddenly taken ill or just inexplicably gone missing. The most extreme case was jumping in to play the part of the pianist on stage in the play "Master Class" at just a few hours notice. What to do in such a case? Keep calm and accept your limits. Don't expect to feel "settled", because you won't.

But in that case you should rely on your reading skills not on memory. 😉

ranjit

Stub What would be the point? You might just fool your teacher, but you won't fool yourself. You really do need a night's sleep to consolidate memory. Several nights of sleep, even better--as you already know.

bSharp +1 - I don't see the purpose of cramming anything in a day, especially piano and diploma level pieces. Why not tell the teacher you didn't start looking at it until a few hours ago?

I know that many people can do this. My piano teacher talked about cramming entire Liszt pieces in 3-4 days, or shorter Liszt pieces like those from his Pilgrimages in hours. We don't always have the luxury of time, and so it's very important to learn to do this IMO. I can not imagine a high level professional pianist not having this ability.

Even now, I'm pushed up against my limit pretty often. I will tell my teacher that I managed to practice a piece for 6 hours on a given week, and he will ask me why I haven't made considerably more progress: that with 6 hours of practice, he would expect a page of music to be learned pretty well. So this question is important to me. I know that there is something really inefficient about the way I'm practicing and learning piano, and it needs to be fixed.

MRC

Everybody's right: sleep, frequent pauses and do you best not to put yourself in this situation.

But sometimes you are put in this situation from no fault of your own. I've had to cover for colleagues suddenly taken ill or just inexplicably gone missing. The most extreme case was jumping in to play the part of the pianist on stage in the play "Master Class" at just a few hours notice. What to do in such a case? Keep calm and accept your limits. Don't expect to feel "settled", because you won't.

bSharp

BartK But in that case you should rely on your reading skills not on memory. 😉

+1 - I don't see the purpose of cramming anything in a day, especially piano and diploma level pieces. Why not tell the teacher you didn't start looking at it until a few hours ago?

ranjit

Thanks everyone. For context, I'm currently in a situation where I would ideally want to memorize 2-3 (fairly hard for my level) pages of music a week, and am looking for strategies. Often I might only have a day left before the lesson, and will want to have something to present.

Stub

ranjit Thanks everyone. For context, I'm currently in a situation where I would ideally want to memorize 2-3 (fairly hard for my level) pages of music a week, and am looking for strategies. Often I might only have a day left before the lesson, and will want to have something to present.

Is your teacher requiring you to memorize it? If not, why not just play from the score?

ranjit

Stub Is your teacher requiring you to memorize it? If not, why not just play from the score?

It's easier to memorize. The pieces are diploma standard, for an audition. And my teacher expects note perfection and good musicality, which is impossible with my terrible sight reading skills.

keystring

Ranjit: stream of consciousness:

Cramming just before a lesson doesn't work in any case. If you're a good sight reader (you've told us you're not) then you can sort of wing it but even then not really. I've heard teachers say "My student came in basically sight reading. Obviously they didn't practice all week. There's not much moving forward we can do on the piece this lessons."
So on that front there's the situation causing you to cram last minute. I'm assuming that you're extremely strapped for time and couldn't practise all week. Time optimization? Find a way to make 10 minutes daily highly effective, if that's all you have?
I'm also thinking of the habit and ability to study the score before working on it. I don't mean writing in/knowing chord names, or the RN I IV V7 I deal. What is the overall structure? Making a 2nd copy that you can mark up with coloured pencils. Let's take something predictable: a simpler sonata allegro form: [(introduction)] [exposition with 2 themes] [development] [recapitulation] [(coda)]. The two themes; move to Dominant key and back (for the stereotypical older ones). Swaths of things that repeat or almost repeat: patterns that you can recognize but don't need to take the time to listen to the music or play it through to first suss it out. This can save you time.

The other part of playing is identifying difficult parts, getting at them first, having a strategy. But with all that, you should allow it to gel over a number of days (even if you only have 10 minutes/day) because that's how the brain and nervous system work.

This:

ranjit My piano teacher talked about cramming entire Liszt pieces in 3-4 days, or shorter Liszt pieces like those from his Pilgrimages in hours.

and

ranjit And my teacher expects note perfection and good musicality, which is impossible with my terrible sight reading skills.

Sorry, I don't see much guidance in either of these things. The "cramming" to me can set up unrealistic expectations and even feelings of not being up to snuff compared to this teacher (who I think left a whole lot out). The expectations do not show me any sign of guidance. Are these things that you should actually be aiming for?

(edit: I had no idea I'd end up with bullet points)

bSharp

ranjit I know that many people can do this. My piano teacher talked about cramming entire Liszt pieces in 3-4 days, or shorter Liszt pieces like those from his Pilgrimages in hours. We don't always have the luxury of time, and so it's very important to learn to do this IMO. I can not imagine a high level professional pianist not having this ability.

Dude, maybe you should ask your teacher then. 😆 Piano is a hobby for most of us mortal people here, and not a cramming exercise.

Stub

ranjit I know that many people can do this. My piano teacher talked about cramming entire Liszt pieces in 3-4 days, or shorter Liszt pieces like those from his Pilgrimages in hours. We don't always have the luxury of time, and so it's very important to learn to do this IMO. I can not imagine a high level professional pianist not having this ability.

Your teacher (or other students) were doing this after learning the piano for how many years?

I know you're trying to play catch-up, but don't push yourself so hard you set yourself up for failure in the near run. We're rooting for you, but patience, grasshopper!🙂

twocats

ranjit Even now, I'm pushed up against my limit pretty often. I will tell my teacher that I managed to practice a piece for 6 hours on a given week, and he will ask me why I haven't made considerably more progress: that with 6 hours of practice, he would expect a page of music to be learned pretty well. So this question is important to me. I know that there is something really inefficient about the way I'm practicing and learning piano, and it needs to be fixed.

There's also natural talent (you'd mentioned he has a semi-photographic memory). It sounds like perhaps he was a piano prodigy, and there really isn't anything you can do to turn yourself into one.

MRC

ranjit We don't always have the luxury of time, and so it's very important to learn to do this IMO. I can not imagine a high level professional pianist not having this ability.

I can assure you that not all high level professional pianists have this ability. Having this ability will also not necessarily mean that you are capable of becoming a high level professional.

There is no recipe for quickly becoming a super crammer. What you can do is look for ways of making your learning process over days and weeks more efficient. You've said your teacher was disappointed at the amount of progress you made with 6 hours of practice on a piece. The first vital question is this: 6 hours solid, or 6 hours spread over the week? If you practice a piece for 1/2 hour in the morning and 1/2 hour in the evening for 6 days, you'll make much more progress than if you do the same total practice time on that piece in one day.

ranjit

bSharp Piano is a hobby for most of us mortal people here, and not a cramming exercise.

Yes, and I posted it on the Pianist Zone to see if anyone had any ideas, not to be told it wasn't my place to ask the question.

ranjit

bSharp Dude, maybe you should ask your teacher then.

Multiple perspectives help. Everyone has a different process and I can't completely replicate my teacher's. He practices for 6 hours at a stretch, super focused, and has semi-photographic memory.

TC3

ranjit It's an interesting question, well worth discussing on a DISCUSSION forum. 😃 Thanks for starting the thread, and I wish I had some helpful advice for you.

bSharp

ranjit Multiple perspectives help. Everyone has a different process and I can't completely replicate my teacher's. He practices for 6 hours at a stretch, super focused, and has semi-photographic memory.

I can give you none, I will never learn Liszt pieces in 4 days. Good luck! Who is your teacher?

ranjit

Stub Your teacher (or other students) were doing this after learning the piano for how many years?

Yes, this was after at least 5 years, I think.

Stub

ranjit Stub Your teacher (or other students) were doing this after learning the piano for how many years?

Yes, this was after at least 5 years, I think.

Are you sure? I assume a teacher teaching diploma level students probably started as a child, probably as a 5-10 year-old. ~~Assuming they're now at least in their twenties and probably older, that's more than 5 years.~~ Edited: Most students (teacher included) likely started under the age of ten and were probably not memorizing large chunks of difficult music in the space of an afternoon when they were 10-12 years old.

ranjit

Stub Are you sure? I assume a teacher teaching diploma level students probably started as a child, probably as a 5-10 year-old. Assuming they're now at least in their twenties and probably older, that's more than 5 years. Edited: Most students (teacher included) likely started under the age of ten and were probably not memorizing large chunks of difficult music in the space of an afternoon when they were 10-12 years old.

Yes, my teacher started when he was 15 and was at a top university by the time he was 20.