I have had many teachers since I first started playing.... I should try to count... four teachers while I was in Japan... seven since moving back to the US. That might sound like a lot, but that's over the course of 25 years now. Only three of these teachers are people that I left because it wasn't working out. And of those three, only one was truly horrible (as in, she criticized the music I wanted to play, said rude things about me all the time, suggested/insisted I do things that were not helpful or beneficial... Ranjit's "which teacher" indeed!!) The other two were perfectly good teachers but we just weren't a good fit.

Of the others, the reasons I didn't continue with them was either because they moved away, or I moved... A few of them I was very, very sad to no longer be able to work with them.

My current teacher is really great, we've been working together since Feb. He is a recent PhD graduate from a very highly regarded music school, which is why I put up with the horrible piano in the lesson room that's been assigned to us! 😛

I think there are a few things that go into it.

  1. Your baseline level (talent?): Everyone intuitively sees and hears some things. The higher the baseline, the higher the minimum level of a teacher must be. Otherwise it can be to the student's detriment.

  2. Working style: Teachers have different styles. Some are relaxed, others are very exacting. Some expect a lot of effort or intelligence, others are more laid back. Some focus more on musicality and some on technique. It is obviously too much to expect a perfect match, but there needs to be decent overlap.

  3. How well the teacher understands the student's thought processes: Typically, the teacher and student must think somewhat alike. There are some (very few) teachers who are exceptionally good at understanding a wide array of students, and that works as well. The teacher should be able to anticipate the student, how much they can get done in a week, what sorts of strategies they would be amenable to, where they are likely to get stuck, etc. at least to some degree.

  4. Musical style: Part of musicality is personal preference. I find it almost necessary to find a teacher whose musicality you can respect. I've sometimes taken lessons from teachers whose playing I personally found boring and it seldom worked well.

24 days later

Lots of interesting facts and experiences about teachers. I would love to find someone (right for me) in my neighborhood, but it seems impossible. With all the online resources available these days, it seems that the right teacher(s) find(s) me at the right time. Just yesterday I came across this saying:

"When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
When the student is truly ready, the teacher will disappear." ~ Lao Tzu

Good luck on your journey🙂

@Animisha how has it been going since your last post on this?

    Sgisela Thank you for your question!

    In the fourth lesson, she was still not satisfied with my two pieces. I was too sad to say anything about it.
    In the fifth lesson, I started by talking to her and we cleared up some misunderstandings. For one, she had no idea how hard I worked before every lesson to get a good recording of each piece. We agreed that I was done with those two pieces, and I would move on.

    But we'll see.

    I still hope that it will work out fine with her. I find it quite dreadful finding a new piano teacher. Every teacher writes that they can help all piano students with everything.

    *
    ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

      @Animisha hmm, maybe you need to discuss with her some big picture things... How many pieces you'll work on at once, what the standards are before moving on, what your goals are, what she thinks are good goals to have.. that kind of thing?

        ShiroKuro Yes, probably we will need to do some more talking!

        When we met, I said that I would like to play each piece as beautifully and expressively as I can (because I felt that my previous teacher did not give me enough feedback), but of course, as beautifully and expressively as I can can be interpreted in many ways. 😅
        I guess I can work with every single piece for half a year and still learn to play it even more beautifully and expressively, but I would also like to start on a new piece every once in a while!

        *
        ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

          Thinking back to the thread about what neuroscience suggests for piano practice… It seems clear that different kinds of learning happens across different stretches of time. Learning a new piece, where you can’t play any of it, feels like it happens relatively quickly because we go from not being able to play it all, to being able to play more and more of it. But once we can play the entire piece, being able to play it “beautifully and expressively” is a kind of learning that happens more slowly. So it makes sense to me to “move on”, i.e., starting a new piece, while still working on the “beautiful and expressive” learning with the previous piece.

          So I wonder if you could talk to your teacher about having “active” pieces, which are ones you’re actively working on and practicing, and these are pieces you would play at your lesson every time. Then you could also have “polish” pieces, which are pieces you’re working on polishing and recording, and these would be pieces that you would not play at every lesson.

          Which reminds me, how long is your lesson and do you have lessons every week?

            ShiroKuro It seems clear that different kinds of learning happens across different stretches of time. Learning a new piece, where you can’t play any of it, feels like it happens relatively quickly because we go from not being able to play it all, to being able to play more and more of it. But once we can play the entire piece, being able to play it “beautifully and expressively” is a kind of learning that happens more slowly.

            This is so true. Those first stages of learning a piece can be exhilarating--we go from stumbling through a brand new piece to being able to produce a credible rendition at a pretty good clip. And then the hard part starts with only incremental changes that come so slowly that we have trouble registering that they're even happening.

            It helps to have pieces in different stages, though (speaking for myself) you have to guard against spending 90% of your time on the new pieces and neglecting the more mature pieces. It also might help to discuss with your teacher having just one piece at a time that you're bringing to a high standard and have your other pieces be "learning" pieces for working on a particular skill or weakness, or just to expose you to music from multiple composers and eras. It can be a trade-off. From my own experience it can hurt to move on from a piece that you know is still pretty rough. But on the other hand, you're getting practice reading lots of music and get to experience those more satisfying early stages of learning more often. Having sufficient variety in pieces and stages of learning is worth striving for, imo.

                Food for thought! 🙏

                ShiroKuro Learning a new piece, where you can’t play any of it, feels like it happens relatively quickly because we go from not being able to play it all, to being able to play more and more of it. But once we can play the entire piece, being able to play it “beautifully and expressively” is a kind of learning that happens more slowly. So it makes sense to me to “move on”, i.e., starting a new piece, while still working on the “beautiful and expressive” learning with the previous piece.

                Very wise words!
                My previous teacher had already approved the two pieces before I started the first lesson. Despite this, my new teacher only signed off on them—somewhat reluctantly—after five lessons.
                One of those pieces was a piece that I loved very much (the Debussy piece that I showed in another thread), but it only has 27 measures and I started to feel fed up. The other piece had gone sour much earlier. There is clearly a limit to how much time I am willing to spend on one short piece!

                Stub you have to guard against spending 90% of your time on the new pieces and neglecting the more mature pieces.

                My problem was that instead of practising I spent so, so much time trying to get a good recording. I had already made a recording before the first lesson, and before the second lesson, the third, the fourth and the fifth, I spent so, so much time on trying to get this good recording that she hopefully would approve. Of course, before making the recording, I would practise according to her directions.
                So that is also something we talked about. She will be more clear to me when she thinks I can make a recording that hopefully is a final recording, and when a recording will be more a work in progress.

                ShiroKuro Which reminds me, how long is your lesson and do you have lessons every week?

                Fifty minutes, and sometimes every week, sometimes every two weeks, according to my needs. I have taken two weeks when I felt that apart from working with these two old pieces and recording them, I wanted time to learn a new piece as well.

                *
                ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                        Animisha My previous teacher had already approved the two pieces before I started the first lesson. Despite this, my new teacher only signed off on them—somewhat reluctantly—after five lessons.

                        Yes, this would be frustrating. I think if there's a piece you'd like to move on from, but she wants you to keep practicing, she needs to tell you what it is she's looking for... And you might decide you don't care about that (not at this point, not with this piece, etc.). There are things we only learn by playing a piece to a very high level of completion, really working on it and polishing it. But if we're not performing that piece, we may be better served by moving on something new. Because playing new pieces comes with a different set of things to learn, and is highly motivating.... As a teacher of an adult, your teacher maybe needs to think about the balance of these two kinds of learning differently...

                        One of those pieces was a piece that I loved very much (the Debussy piece that I showed in another thread), but it only has 27 measures and I started to feel fed up. The other piece had gone sour much earlier. There is clearly a limit to how much time I am willing to spend on one short piece!

                        Yes, and once you'e fed up, you should move on, or at least put the piece aside for a rest.

                          @Animisha I think there’s always an adjustment period with new teachers… both from the student side and the teacher side. It sounds like you are communicating the issues you’re having, and it seems like the teacher is adjusting. I hope you feel you are getting some good direction from the lessons, and I hope it works out with this teacher.

                          Animisha My problem was that instead of practising I spent so, so much time trying to get a good recording.

                          I had online lessons for about 6 months and this was a huge ordeal for me. The routine was that I would send a recording of my piece(s) the day before or of my lesson. The teacher would review that before we met and then we would discuss. It was SUCH a time sink, because it's not in my nature to just record once and call it good. I would keep going until I was satisfied (or gave up in disgust!). Besides the fact that I don't think that was a good use of my time, I also don't think it necessarily represented my "skill" with that piece. If I make mistakes the first 9 attempts and then finally the 10th time it's good, if the teacher only hears that 10th time they won't be aware of the struggles I'm having. Of course I could mention that, and sometimes I did....but more often I just kept my mouth shut and accepted the "pass" because I was so frustrated with the piece at that point. 😆

                            When I changed teachers, my new teacher reworked my technique and went even faster than I expected. He assigned all of the white key major, minor and harmonic minor scales the first day. Later on, he assigned white key arpeggios and octave scales by the end of the second month. We talked about how to progress fast at the piano, and he suggested attempting to learn a Czerny etude just about every week. (It ended up taking me an average of about 2 weeks, but I got close). He also highly valued long practice hours.

                            Guess we all have different experiences when it comes to teachers.

                            In my younger days I took violin lessons and now piano lessons. A piece that isn't very long (up to 3 pages) the teacher would work on it for up to 3 weeks. It's rare for a teacher to focus on just 1 piece for longer unless it's going to be performed in a recital.

                            There are a lot of nuances I wouldn't pick up right away. The first time it's mainly learning the notes and try to count correctly. Next fix the dynamics & phrasing. Gradually bring a piece closer to the ideal tempo.

                            Whether we get every little thing, after a few weeks we'd move to the next piece and return to that piece at a later time. There are always 2 and sometimes 3 pieces the teacher would work on at the same time.