Pallas I have an art and music studio in my house now. I have two pianos, and I write, and I paint in oils.

This is so, so wonderful Pallas!!

BTW re @ brdwyguy ā€˜s comment about people who started piano as children, hated lessons or grew away from piano etcā€¦ in my case, my mother told me that at some point she asked me if I wanted piano lessons. We didnā€™t have a piano but she said if she got one, I would have to agree to take lessons and practice some cortina amount. She said I said ā€œno thank youā€ so she decided not to force it because she didnā€™t want me to end up hating music. I have zero recollection of this! (The next time I talk to her, Iā€™ll ask her how old I was). At some point, I got interested in guitar and she got me a classical guitar and lessons. (Which lasted until high school when I broke my arm most dramatically, another long story)

Also at some point before this, my parents had gotten divorced and there was no way she/we would been able to afford a piano, to say nothing of the fact that we were living in apartments for a long time. Starting some time maybe in junior high, I can remember feeling like ā€œI always wanted to play the pianoā€ but I never asked for a piano because in my mind, a piano would cost as much as a house. So I did other musical things (marching band, clarinet, guitar of course until I broke my arm etc.) But I was never forced to take music lessons, so I never had that complicated relationship with them.

When I finally started piano (at age 30),and said something to my mother about how Iā€™d always wanted to play the piano, she said ā€œyouā€™re kidding!ā€ And she told me the story about asking me if I wanted lessons. She said ā€œwhy didnā€™t you say something! I would have figured out how to make it happenā€ As I said, I have no recollection of being asked about lessons, but in the end, I think it worked out for the best. When I was younger, I donā€™t think I would have had the disciple to stick with it. But as an adult, I treasure it and it means so much to me. And of course, at this point, Iā€™ve now been playing piano forā€¦ 25 years. Wow!

So although I donā€™t usually believe that ā€œeverything happens for a reason,ā€ in this case, I think things worked out pretty well.

Oh and btw when I first started piano and purchased a Yamaha digital piano, I never, in my wildest dreams, thought I would one day own a grand piano. And I had no idea if I would ever be able to play, if I would be able to play music that other people could even recognize as musicā€¦ And yet, here I am, with my very own grand piano, and able to play not just pieces that are recognizable as music, but pieces that I love, music that I hear on the radio and can go and buy the sheet music for and learn and play it myself.

To me, this is an amazing gift, and one for which I am grateful beyond words. šŸ’

      Taushi

      Wow, so much in common with my story. Starting on a Casio toy, then the fast progress, the musical career aspirations, the crisis, derailment, career switch, then reconnecting with the piano during the pandemic, way too late in life at that point to even consider musical career aspirations again. Thank you for sharing.

        Ah, my first keyboard was also a Casio, Christmas of '84 if I recall:

        Enthusiastic but mediocre amateur.

        ShiroKuro
        Quite a story! I'm glad you don't regret that you were not forced to study music/piano as a child. Some would say that young children should be forced to study music because they are too young at that age to decide for themselves, and if they eventually develop the desire to go further then the basics will have already been learned during those "critical" early years. This may sound good on paper, but I don't believe in it myself.

          Couldn't agree more! I'm really grateful that I wasn't forced into it! Now I'm learning because I want to and enjoying every minute of it.

          5 days later

          Long overdue, and I'm not sure if people are following this thread anymore, but here goes!

          I started in my freshman year of college. A few months before I joined college, there was this friend of mine who showed me a couple of piano recordings that were amazing.

          Prior to that, I had very little knowledge about music. I didn't know what scales were, and I had never heard of chords. But I became obsessed with those piano pieces, and realized I had quite a good "sound memory" for music. Although I had no one else to compare it to and wasn't from a musical family, the entire piece would just start playing in my head, basically from start to finish, as if I were listening to it live. Then, I thought -- it must be possible to translate what you can imagine in your head onto the instrument, as if you were singing it. That it should be possible to eventually learn to transcribe anything, if you can only hear it clearly enough. And so I started playing all of the melodies I knew at that time (mostly pop songs) by ear.

          My freshman year of college was very difficult for me. I was almost failing classes, and I realized that I didn't really like my major but couldn't switch out. A friend of mine had a portable 61-key keyboard which he let me borrow, so I would take that to my dorm room, skip all my classes, and play piano for something like 4-6 hours a day when I would get the chance, maybe more. I was obsessed, and would learn themes I liked from songs, play by ear or using synthesia, even attempt to improvise a little, but quite poorly as I had no idea what I was doing. Essentially, I would take an idea and try to build it up, like playing one augmented chord in the left hand and seeing what melodies fit -- that sort of thing.

          I really wanted to learn quickly, and kind of properly (although when I started taking lessons I realized that I had missed out on so much). Within the first few months, a guy introduced me to Zimerman's Chopin Ballades -- he had played the Fourth Ballade himself sometime in his childhood. I didn't take to them initially, but over a few months, they really grew on me. And so Zimerman's Ballades and Schubert Impromptus was one of my first exposure to classical music.

          I used to follow YouTube channels, masterclasses on YouTube, and C Chang's book on how to learn the piano. His idea of "mental practice" really took with me, and I tried developing an internal ear for music the best I could, and a mental visual keyboard, which I succeeded at. I watched all of Josh Wright's videos, something like 500 of them. Around this point, I started getting into some of the other YouTube arrangers, like The Piano Guys, Animenz and Kyle Landry.

          I watched this video series, and he mentions Cziffra's Liszt Grand Galop Chromatique at some point. I listen to it, and am totally blown away.

          Then, I listened through much of Cziffra's catalog of recordings. That was my gateway into piano music, and to me he is still the best performer of all time, and has jaw-dropping musical moments.

          I wanted to prove a point, and so I taught myself Chopin's Nocturne op 9 no 2, Schubert Impromptu op 90 no 2 and 4, the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 6 (as best as I could), culminating in (obviously lol) Fantaisie Impromptu!

          It's not well played, and got rightfully shat on when I posted it on discussion forums online. But it was still something, and that made me feel like I should really be taking piano more seriously.

          This was a point of some soul searching. I loved piano, but there was no way I could audition for a music degree with zero formal training. So I decided to go for a Masters program in computer science, get a piano teacher and really focus hard on getting good. I auditioned for a few piano teachers, and they had relatively mixed opinions, where some were amazed at what I could do and some others were tentative given that I was an adult. I started with a well-regarded teacher who said he would try to build my technique from the ground up.

          Whenever teachers would ask me what my plans were with the piano, I would tell them that I wanted to be a concert pianist. Obviously, this was met with some incredulity, but my hope was that it would give teachers the right expectation, that I wanted to be pushed to my limit and progress quickly.

          That was a difficult experience. I was playing grade 1 pieces for almost a whole year, trying to train my hands and fingers to work the way my teacher was asking them to. I did get better, but it didn't click completely. After another year, I tried many different things and learned many pieces, but it still wasn't working. My teacher told me that he didn't think I had the talent, or that I had started too late, to try to become a pianist, and reiterated his view that an adult could never do it.

          So, I started with another teacher in a last ditch attempt to get somewhere, and that has been the past year. This new teacher believed that hard work was all that mattered, and was essentially a prodigy who started in his teens. That was very much an inspiration for me. He thought it was absolutely possible to get into a degree program within a year or two, and essentially set out a plan. That has really improved my technique and playing ability, and allowed me to make real progress of a kind I have never made before.

          ... to be continued. (lol)

            ranjit ... to be continued.

            Perhaps for a lifetime! Weā€™re lifetime learners! šŸ™‚

              Thanks everyone for sharing your stories! If you havenā€™t shared yours yet, please donā€™t be shy! It is super fun to learn about all the very different piano paths we have followed!

              a month later

              My journey is a STAGGERINGā€¦ 6 months haha!

              As a child, I always wanted to play music but instruments cost money that sadly my folks didnā€™t have to spare. Luckily I grew to love drawing and painting and made a career as an artist (mostly drawing portraits but a few illustrations and graphic design made it into the mix). Unfortunately, when you turn what you love into a job, itā€™s pretty easy to lose that passion you once had.

              Well one day I was visiting a bookstore that also sold instruments and the keyboards were all too expensiveā€¦ but not that electric guitar in the corner! That guitar phase wasā€¦ oh I donā€™t knowā€¦ 2 months long in my early 20s??

              Fast forward through a short military career, medical retirement, a move to Germanyā€¦ and attending several piano jazz concerts during Beethoven fest, I was that 20 something young adult fantasizing about playing the piano.

              So, in January (at the age of 34) I bought a Kawai KDP120 and started lessons. I fell in love with that feeling of playing a tune and in April I started renting a upright Rƶsler (1977 109cm) which soundsā€¦ questionable at best šŸ˜‚. Iā€˜m bow trying to decide between the digital hybrid NV10s or the K500 aures2.

              Talk about hook line and sinkerā€¦

              Oh, and after I started playing piano, I got that passion to start painting again ā˜ŗļø

                GurkeSalat after I started playing piano, I got that passion to start painting again

                It's uncanny how often passion for playing an instrument and passion for painting go hand in hand!

                Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your story. There are many of us around who are at a similar stage of our piano journey (as well as many awesome knowledgeable seasoned players). You're in good company šŸ˜

                  a month later

                  rogerch thank you for reminding me (in the recital thread) of your story. Now that Iā€™ve heard your wonderful improvising, your story is even more meaningful! And by the way< in th recital, your piano sounded wonderful as well, so that restringing was definitely worth it!

                  Am I understanding correctly that you didnā€™t (and currently donā€™t) work with a teacher on improvising? Did (do) you use any books or pedagogical materials to learn to improvise?

                      ShiroKuro Am I understanding correctly that you didnā€™t (and currently donā€™t) work with a teacher on improvising? Did (do) you use any books or pedagogical materials to learn to improvise?

                      I haven't worked with a teacher on improvising. My last piano lesson was 25 years ago! Once I retire I may try to find a teacher and/or take music classes at the local community college.

                      I have gotten some helpful tips from an experienced improviser.

                      Early on I worked on the material in the first few chapters of Improvisation at the Piano, which was helpful in getting me started. There is a lot to learn in that book that I haven't worked on and I will probably keep using it as I progress.

                      I've worked a lot on scales and chords. My routine for scales is to work my way through the major and harmonic minor scales, switching scales either every day or every week. I play two handed four octave Hanon scales, and I play them at various volumes with emphasis on playing them as quietly as I can for control. After playing a scale I play all the chords for that scale in sequence, while saying the flavor of each chord: major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, diminished or minor, diminished, augmented, minor, major, major, diminished. I go up and down the scale doing this until I can play each chord and say the correct flavor with no hesitation.

                      After working on the scale of the day I improvise in that scale. Sometimes I work on chord patterns while improvising, other times I work on playing melodies in both hands at the same time.

                      Lately I haven't been working on scales as much. Instead I've been working on a variety of skills:

                      • Play a melody line, and then play the same line again. This is really hard for me but I hope to eventually get good at it so I can repeat a line when improvising
                      • Hand independence: My hands tend to get bound together rhythmically, especially if I play a melody in my left hand. I do exercises to try to avoid having rhythms in one hand disrupt the rhythms in the other hand
                      • Non-diatonic: I work on breaking out of scale notes and chords. I've made some progress here but have a long way to go
                      • Use the whole piano: My hands tend to stay close together when I improvise, so I work on having them further apart
                      • Different styles: I try to play differently than what I've played before. I don't want all my improvisations to sound the same

                      My work on the above all involves improvising while keeping the skill I'm focusing on in mind.

                      Every day I play I also improvise freely with no agenda. That's the reward for all of the work!

                        @rogerch wow, that's amazing! I can easily imagine myself practicing all those things you described. But I don't see how I would end up with the musicality that you get!

                        Thanks for the link, I'm going to go look the book now. šŸ™‚

                          ShiroKuro @rogerch wow, that's amazing! I can easily imagine myself practicing all those things you described. But I don't see how I would end up with the musicality that you get!

                          Based on your playing in the recital I think you would have very nice musicality as an improviser!

                            That's kind of you to say!!
                            I ordered the book you linked (improvising for people with classical training), I'll let you know how it goes! šŸ™‚

                            14 days later

                            Gooseberry I am a beginner, and will always be, I suppose. I started to learn too late (at almost 60) to become anything else.
                            So sorry to read about the selfishness of your father and the stunting of your early development as a pianist. As for your statement that you will always be a beginner, allow me to disagree politely. If you can study with someone who really knows how to work with people in your situation (returnees after long absences, adult beginners), it is entirely possible, if you work enough at it, to train yourself to be a more than "good enough" pianist. People can and do learn things after childhood. As an example, a former romantic partner of mine had never picked up a paint brush to do anything other than paint a door. At age 30, she enrolled in courses in Chinese Brush Painting with a master. Years later her paintings are in demand and command prices in the thousands of dollars. Keep playing and enjoying that happiness you feel, the more you do it, the better you will get. Offered in a Spirit of Helpfulness and in support of your efforts.

                                Seeker Iā€™m deeply moved by your kind and supportive words. Encouragement coming from someone like you is invaluable. It also happens to come at a time when I especially need it. Thank you!

                                    Gooseberry I went back and listened to some of your recital pieces again. You play beautifully! Your playing is delicate and expressive. You have a lovely touch and your playing is very nice to listen to!

                                        rogerch Iā€™m really, really grateful for the support I have always received from you šŸ˜Š

                                        Seriously, this is such a great community of kind-hearted people that I want to hug you all!

                                          Hi

                                          I've posted something similar on PW, but here it all is again.

                                          I started playing when I was about 8 or 9 (1969/1970), because my sister (2 years younger than me) started playing! My parents were both musical. My Mum was a reasonable classical Pianist and a good singer. In the 1980s she sang at the Royal Festival Hall a number of times in a choir. Although my Dad didn't play or sing he was nevertheless very musical, and a big blues and Jazz fan. Both these interests I've inherited, though my singing is pretty awful.

                                          I had a few months of classical lessons from a local teacher when I first started, but this didn't last and I wasn't inspired, at that time, to play classical. So I drifted for a few years and then at some point I heard my first boogie-woogie record, which I knew immediately was what I wanted to play. But at that time I had no way of knowing how to do so. Inevitably in my teenage years I gravitated towards the pop music of the day. And who was the biggest pop star of the mid 1970s. Elton John. He remains a huge influence on my non-classical playing. I bought books of sheet music of his most famous albums like Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. But none of these really showed you how he played. If you're interested in his actual Piano playing check out EltonsCafe.net, this is a treasure trove of transcriptions and analysis.

                                          Then in about 1980 a friend of mine showed me that if you learnt to understand the chord symbols put in the music for guitarists you could effectively make up your own versions. After this revelation I spent several years learning chord structures, eventually becoming fluent at instantly translating these symbols, rather than reading the notes on the page. This was also my way into improvising. By this time I'd bought a home organ. These were all that rage in the early 1980s, but they didn't make that classic Hammond sound that I wanted.

                                          In 1987 I was desperate to start playing with other musicians, but had no outlet, so I decided I'd take up classical Guitar. Fate and luck were with me. I took and passed grade 2 and grade 4 classical guitar with my Teacher. But once I got to know him I found out he was also an electric bass player, and after a couple of years I joined him in a band he was in. At this point I bought my first Yamaha Clavinova.

                                          I also passed Piano Grade 6 Piano with him, and theory grades 5, 7 & 8. I stopped having lessons with him in the early 1990s, but we've remained friends ever since and he is depping in a big band that I play with (most recently on Sunday).

                                          Since 1989 I've been in Rock, Blues and Jazz bands virtually continuously, and at one point was semi-pro, but that died a death when a recession hit.

                                          I retired in 2020, just before the Pandemic and this gave me a lot of free time. So variously I tried Sax (for a 2nd time), Vibes and drums. For my 60th birthday I got a drum kit and I use these a lot and am good enough to keep time and play them in a band I'm in.

                                          The Piano has remained my primary focus over all the years. In late 2022, having had some drum lessons and flirted with Vibraphone I decided I should return to serious classical Piano lessons for the first time since the early 1990s. Last year I passed ABRSM grade 7 and am working towards grade 8 now.

                                          That's about it....

                                          Cheers

                                          Simon
                                          All round average Jazz, Blues & Rock player.
                                          Currently working towards ABRSM grade 8.