Recital vs Shaking Hands Episode 7

navindra

My piece for this year's end of year recital was unfortunately not performance ready, but for personal reasons, I didn't want to sit this recital out. So last week, I decided to bring back a couple of old favorites I've played frequently over the years.

I couldn't play these pieces at all at first, but they slowly came back to life, and I was pretty happy with how they shaped up, in less than a week. That was a win!

Sadly, I couldn't shake the shaking hands syndrome. It was right on schedule as I began playing the first piece. This definitely caused some noticeable stumbles, but I did my best to keep things together. Instead of trying to correct the mistakes, I forged ahead as best I could. I was mostly playing on autopilot but I was "directing" if that makes any sense, and so I still had a chance to play out some of my own musical choices.

In the end, I survived both pieces and got some nice compliments! Although, my son was quick to point out my mistakes. 😂

It's a bit of downer that my performances always have to be marred by my shaking hands. 🤷🏼‍♂️

ShiroKuro

navindra It's a bit of downer that my performances always have to be marred by my shaking hands

If I may be so bold as to share some unsolicited advice: please don’t let this be the main takeaway from your recital. You almost certainly played better than you realize. As you probably remember from my (many, many) posts about this, I have a lot of experience with shaky hands as well, and I truly believe that the best approach is just to learn to live with it, play through it, ignore the shaky hands, and see the good in the music/performance, rather than zero in on the parts that you wish were better.

Ok, off my soapbox now… 😅

The “autopilot/directing” sounds good, I’m glad you were able to find some pieces to play and with such a short turn around time too!

Seeker

navindra Can't remember if this was mentioned to you. Have you tried a very low dose beta blocker? There's an article here https://www.local802afm.org/allegro/articles/beta-blockers/ that details how many musicians used them and makes the case against using them advising us to change our relationship with performance adrenalin. David Buswell writes with great clarity about how to do that in his book, "Performance Strategies for Musicians", a book I have in my library and regularly recommend to people I teach and coach. It is possible to befriend your adrenalin; it's just not easy, at least for most people. Back to Beta Blockers - IMO experience, occasional use of a Beta Blocker works fine, but as with any drug, it's best to be minimalist and disciplined about using it.

KevinM

Well done Navindra.

I have a similar experience coming up on Friday and it has been more than 6 six years since I have played on a grand.

ShiroKuro

KevinM that sounds exciting! Be sure to give us a”recital report!”

What piece(s) will you play? Will you have a chance to try out the piece beforehand? Oh also, what is the event?

navindra

ShiroKuro please don’t let this be the main takeaway from your recital. You almost certainly played better than you realize.

This is the advice I come here for! Thank you. 🙂

I admit I still believe it must be possible to play without this affliction... perhaps I just haven't cracked the code yet, but your strategy/advice is definitely the most realistic.

KevinM The venue is a large church with a grand piano, so it should be an interesting experience from playing a grand and dealing with the acoustics of a large church with all its hard surfaces.

That will be fun and such a great experience! Personally I always love discovering new pianos.

Yesterday I played on this awesome Petrof:

KevinM I feel uncomfortable with the issue that most students will be young and their parents will be there for them and not really interested in the other players. But how else am I going to find other local adult learners.

I feel like it would be the opposite, most likely you will be a highlight of the recital and an inspiration to others. At least that's how I felt when I listened to all the adult beginners at last evening's recital. I wasn't the only one dealing with nerves but I very much enjoyed all the adult participation.

KevinM

ShiroKuro It is organised by my teacher with a few other teachers for students to perform a piece. I've just prepared the one piece, an old favourite by Schumann Of Foreign Lands and Peoples. My teacher has pushed me quite hard on polishing it. Fixing some rhythmic issues, being more aware of what to emphasise, it has been good for me.

The venue is a large church with a grand piano, so it should be an interesting experience from playing a grand and dealing with the acoustics of a large church with all its hard surfaces.

I suspect most of the students will be children but my teacher has assured me there will be other adults and that he is ok with me talking with them about organising an adult only meetup where we can support each other efforts.

I feel uncomfortable with the issue that most students will be young and their parents will be there for them and not really interested in the other players. But how else am I going to find other local adult learners.

So, this is the price I am willing to pay.

ShiroKuro

KevinM I hope it will be a great experience, or at the very least, neutral to positive. 🙂 I will look forward to hearing about how it goes (it’s the 26th?)

ShiroKuro

navindra I admit I still believe it must be possible to play without this affliction... perhaps I just haven't cracked the code yet, but your strategy/advice is definitely the most realistic.

I sort of hate to say this, but I think it starts with figuring out how to perceive the shakes as something other than an affliction. It’s a paradox, or a Zen koan. It’s almost like you can’t get over the shakes until you figure out how to accept the shakes. 😅

I won’t go on for now, but if you would like to start (or have me start) another thread about combating the shakes, we can do that.

Back to the rest of your post! That Petrof, and that space, is absolutely beautiful! I would love to play somewhere like that! Wow!!

navindra KevinM I feel uncomfortable with the issue that most students will be young and their parents will be there for them and not really interested in the other players. But how else am I going to find other local adult learners.

I feel like it would be the opposite, most likely you will be a highlight of the recital and an inspiration to others. At least that's how I felt when I listened to all the adult beginners at last evening's recital. I wasn't the only one dealing with nerves but I very much enjoyed all the adult participation.

To this part of the discussion, I totally get where Kevin is coming from. I decided to stop attending the recitals at the community music school (after I think 3 times participating) because I could feel the disinterest in the air, and that seemed to really compound my performance anxiety. My teachers (I worked with two different ones during my time there) always said “there might be some other adult students playing” but there never were. The kids were not interested in listening to anyone else, the parents clearly were only interested in their kids. And it was kind of a high pressure, fast turnover event. I think they scheduled too many players per session. They would have six 90-to 120-minute recital sessions over an Sat-Sun and even with that many sessions it was obviously hard to fit everyone in, so that didn’t help. And I most certainly was not a highlight or an inspiration to anyone. I just felt like a bother.

Compare that to the two times I’ve played at the retirement center, the first time I think there were close to 50 people in the audience and the second, maybe more like 30. I played first both times, and each time I was the least advanced performer and played the least advanced music. But the people in the audience wanted to be there, some of them had clearly dressed up a bit for the event. And they listened. You could just feel it. Both times, afterward people came up to thank me and compliment me, and the compliments were often specific, like mentioning a specific piece or asking something specific (like questions about the composers etc.) And the organizer of the event as well as the representative for the center were so affirming and appreciative (“thank you so much for playing” etc.)

@navindra it sounds like the recitals you’re attending are much better than the music school ones I described above. Hopefully @KevinM ’s event will be better as well, and will give him the opportunity to meet and coordinate with other adult players.

Actually, as I think about it, maybe it’s just that music school that’s the aberration 😃 … you know how one thing that adult beginners are said worry about is playing right after some 6 year old who plays advanced music beautifully? There were no kids like that in the school recitals… In fact, most of them were terrible, and I found it hard to listen when all the kids were unable to maintain a consistent tempo, stopped and started… 😅

TC3

ShiroKuro Compare that to the two times I’ve played at the retirement center ...

Thanks for sharing that, very neat. It's been a few years, but I used to contribute to a series of talks for a group of older and/or retired folks in the area (I think they disbanded when COVID hit). It was amazing how interested and appreciative they were, no matter what topic I went there to talk about. I wish my students cared as much! 😃

navindra

ShiroKuro I sort of hate to say this, but I think it starts with figuring out how to perceive the shakes as something other than an affliction. It’s a paradox, or a Zen koan. It’s almost like you can’t get over the shakes until you figure out how to accept the shakes.

Wow! That does indeed feel like a profound insight. It's almost liberating.

ShiroKuro I won’t go on for now, but if you would like to start (or have me start) another thread about combating the shakes, we can do that.

Feel free to use the same thread!

KevinM I played solidly, probably could have added to the interpretation, but the feeling was a bit too much of wanting to play it safe. It went off without a hitch.

That's great news! Well done! I know you're returning to piano after a break, so it's really fantastic that you've been able to pick up from where you left off.

Gombessa But other times, I don't know why, the nerves just hit and I can't do anything. It's just autonomic or something, no manner of breathing or meditation or anything helps. But it doesn't have to take over the moment.

Interesting observation because I have had the same experience as well... not just on piano but with harmonium as well.

Gombessa I'm reminded in particular of tuning in to one of the recent Chopin competitions to see Cateen participate, and the first thing I saw was how shaky his hands were. It's the top comment on the YT video too!

I mean wow. Just wow. It's really amazing to see this.

I can just feel his struggle and I can't help but marvel at his mastery at the same time. I just know he over prepared tremendously to overcome this. Mind-blowing.

Thanks a ton for sharing this!

MRC

ShiroKuro It’s a paradox, or a Zen koan. It’s almost like you can’t get over the shakes until you figure out how to accept the shakes.

I'm sure you're right.

Here's my personal experience with the shakes. As a student, I was very prone to them. They stopped me playing cello in public - with a shaky bow hand, you simply cannot sustain a note - and they affected my piano playing, but at least for the piano I was able to find a "workaround" (although I din't call it that).

Here's how I coped. I made sure, whenever possible, to start a recital or a competition programme with a piece that wasn't too affected by the shakes. Anything very soft, very slow, or with delicate figurations, was too dangerous: if I played something like that with shaking hands, there would be notes that didn't sound at all, this would increase my nervousness and things would only get worse from then on.

Instead, I'd start with something that stayed loud, or at least didn't go under a mf, and was quite fast. I found that an energetic, extrovert piece wasn't so affected by the shakes. Probably I didn't give it my best, but nothing really bad happened, and as I continued playing I became more immersed in the music and I stopped worrying about shaking hands. After a few minutes, the shakes had usually calmed down and I could play something more intimate.

That got me through my studies, and with more performing experience the shakes calmed down. That doesn't mean they are gone forever, but if they do appear I just acknowledge them and don't get caught up in the vicious circle of nervousness producing shakes producing more nervousness producing worse shakes...

KevinM

ShiroKuro I played solidly, probably could have added to the interpretation, but the feeling was a bit too much of wanting to play it safe. It went off without a hitch.

Unfortunately it was timed right at the end of the heatwave we have been having here and a few people pulled out at the last minute so it was a very small recital with only one other adult and they were playing Clarinet. So no opportunity to make contacts. Most of the kids were pretty good playing a mixture of piano, bassoon and recorder. One kid played all three (not at the same time haha).

The church was quite stifling from the heat when we arrived but fans did manage to cool things down a bit. The piano was a yamaha baby grand, which was really helped by the hard stone walls of the large church to give depth to the sound. The pedal was awkward for some reason.

I got a chance to get a feel for the piano before the recital started.

Because it was small it was a nice cosy chat with cake afterwards, the parents who stayed for the chat were talking about all sorts of programs available for kids.

ShiroKuro

KevinM I played solidly, probably could have added to the interpretation, but the feeling was a bit too much of wanting to play it safe. It went off without a hitch.

Bravo!!! Well done!! Was this your first public performance in a long time?

probably could have added to the interpretation, but the feeling was a bit too much of wanting to play it safe.

I know this feeling!! I often feel like I can either choose musicality or correct notes, but not both 😑

KevinM a few people pulled out at the last minute so it was a very small recital with only one other adult and they were playing Clarinet. So no opportunity to make contacts.

Ahh that's too bad!! Hopefully you'll have another chance to meet some of them.

All in all, it sounds like a big success!!! 👏👏👏

Gombessa

Just chiming in on shaking hands...sometimes you just can't do anything about it. Playing the piano has been one of my main personal joys for the last several years, and I've generally enjoyed the few opportunities I've had to play in more public settings. Just last week, I was visiting my local town museum looking for some old maps of the neighborhood, and they had a Chickering square grand from the 1800s, which was remarkably in decent shape and in tune. My daughter was with me and she asked me to play something (and she sang along!), and it was great.

But other times, I don't know why, the nerves just hit and I can't do anything. It's just autonomic or something, no manner of breathing or meditation or anything helps. But it doesn't have to take over the moment.

I'm reminded in particular of tuning in to one of the recent Chopin competitions to see Cateen participate, and the first thing I saw was how shaky his hands were. It's the top comment on the YT video too!

I really can't imagine the pressure in that situation, talk about stakes!

ShiroKuro

@navindra since you’re ok with it being in this thread, I’ll share a little more about what I do to counteract the shakes. These are things I’ve experimented over the years and found that they make a huge difference for me. But that doesn’t mean they will work for everyone. I would say that probably the one thing that applies to almost everyone, as @MRC and others have mentioned, is to have repeated experiences. IOW, just having as many public performances as regularly as possible will generally help because it has a desensitizing effect… Anyway, here are things I do.

Actively seek out regular opportunities to perform publicly or to perform for guests at home. Once or twice a year is not frequent enough.
The day of the performance, try to do some light cardio type exercise for about 20 minutes. The point is to get the heart beating, get out of breath a little bit. This uses up some of the adrenalin and blunts the fight or flight response enough to make a difference. (I can say more about this if anyone is curious)
Always try to play more than one piece. I have found that when I play one piece, then actually stop, and then play a second, it really, really helps with the shakes in a way that doesn’t happen if I just play a longer piece. In other words, if I played one longer piece (as opposed to two shorter pieces, so roughly the same time length in total), I might have a slight reduction in the shakes from beginning to end of the piece, but there’s something about playing one piece, stopping and then playing a different piece that acts like a reset button in between the two pieces in a way I don’t feel when it’s just one, longer piece. Like maybe after the first piece, my body thinks, “ok, we did the shakes, now we can move on.” I think maybe moreso than the other tips in my list, this one might be the truly psychological one. It’s as if, when I know that I’m playing two (or more) pieces, it’s just less pressure, not a “one shot, one chance” thing. And if I play more than two pieces, it always gets better with each successive piece.
Play an easier, shorter piece first. Like @MRC , for the first piece, I try to pick a piece that I know won’t be totally derailed by the shakes. I also like for the first piece to be shorter, and low stakes, something I’m really comfortable with.
Don’t try to stop the shakes. Just play through the shakes. This is the part I was mentioning in an earlier post. The goal isn’t to not shake. It’s to prevent the shakes from derailing everything. So if my hands are shaking, I just try to think “ok, right on schedule,” and keep going. Another way to think about this is that it’s sort of like radical acceptance. I care about playing and I care about playing well, but I don’t have as many opportunities as I need to become truly confident and desensitized, so it’s only natural that I get the shakes. And that’s ok. Just keep playing.
Always play from the score and read while playing. Not everyone will agree with this or find it helpful, but for me, I found that if I use the score, and actively read it while practicing, then during a perfomance, I can use score reading to help me focus, and of course I don’t have to worry about memory slips. Also having the score to read helps me distract my brain from thinking about how shaky I am, etc. So for me, score-reading is part of how I “practice performing” during practice at home.
Practice playing through mistakes. Never go backwards in the piece, never stop and start over. Keep moving forward in the music. During practice, I work on this during play-through practices, and also I make sure I can jump ahead if I’m really struggling. This helps avoid a true crash and burn.
If you make a mistake during a performance, do not make a face. I'm adding this after @twocats 's comment below. This is so important. Most of the time, the audience won't notice the mistake, but if you grimace or something, they will. In order to be sure that you don't make a face while performing, you need to also do the same when practicing. So you should avoid making faces (or saying something aloud like "crap" etc.) at any time, whether it's during practice or during a lesson. It’s all about habits, and anything we do during practice will likely come out during performance.
Always end with a smile. No matter what happens, no matter how badly I think I played, stand up, smile at the audience, say thank you. And don’t criticize myself to audience members. (There’s a story behind this, from my first crash and burn, if anyone wants to hear it again. …). This is another part of the radical acceptance, however I played, however much of a failure I think it was, it’s all ok. I did my best in a perfomance situation, and any “failure” doesn’t negate my worth as a pianist, and it doesn’t negate all the work I put into being and becoming a pianist. It’s also a way to show respect to the people who came and gave their time to me to listen.
As much as possible, record the performance. This is partly for study purposes, and for that reason alone, it’s valuable to record. I find that I can learn trouble spots that I don’t see during practice, and figure out ways to practice and improve, but I don’t retain or remember it enough without recording. But the bigger reason for recording is that I find I never played as badly as I thought I did. When I listen to the recordings, I try to listen at least twice: once is “listen to learn,” and then after that, I try to listen as if I’m an audience member, and I try to listen for he good in the performance. And I generally find, “ah, ok, that mistake was hardly noticeable, the over feel and flow are good. It was fine.” So having the recording is actually very comforting, and I think it helps me gain a little more confidence for the next performance.
Forgive yourself. When it’s all finished, don’t be disappointed, or if you are disappointed, accept it and move on. Forgive yourself for not playing as well as you know you can, for not playing as well as you can play when you’re alone in your own home. Acknowledge the hard work, and be proud that you got up and played in front of others and played through the shakes.
Commit to do it all over again soon. As soon as the performance is done, well or at least at your next practice session, start thinking about when you can have another public performance . Which reminds me, I need to plan to go play at the art shop again and do my whole rep set…. 🙂

That’s it, I think. None of these are really about bringing a piece up to performance level, practicing for perfomance etc. That would be a separate list of more playing-specific things. But the things on this list are things that I have found help me a great deal. If any of them seem useful, please incorporate them and see how it goes.

🙂

twocats

ShiroKuro Practice playing through mistakes

And don't make a face when you make one!

The one thing that has been magic for me is taking beta blockers, a 10mg pill of propranolol. I think 1 hour before is the sweet spot for me, 30 minutes was too soon and by 2 hours it had worn off. I didn't want to mess up at the competition due to nerves and my doctor said it's really safe as long as I don't have low blood pressure. My violinist friend also recently started taking beta blockers and it has helped him to actually enjoy performing!

ShiroKuro

twocats And don't make a face when you make one!

Yes!! This is super important. I should go and add it above.

At some point years ago I had a teacher who mentioned to me the importance of by making faces, and so I made it a pint just to never do it, ever, not only while performing, but also when I’m at home alone or in my lessons.

It’s all about habits, and anything we do during practice will likely come out during performance.

Re beta blockers, I’m glad they’ve worked so well for you! I think anyone who wants to try them absolutely should!

TC3

I'll second (third? fourth?) the "learn to accept / not worry about nervousness" sentiment.

Earlier this year, I had a playing situation that I was particularly nervous about, and really didn't want to be. I spent the week before looking up all these strategies that were supposed to eliminate or at least minimize it. They absolutely didn't work, and in fact made everything worse. Nervousness, shakes, sweating, all so bad I practically felt like I was going to pass out or something ... After that, I just decided "Screw it, I'll just be nervous from now on. It's not worth getting so worked up about."

TLH21

I am genuinely curious about the urge to perform when it makes a person so physically uncomfortable. Is it to improve exam performance? Is it because of a desire to make music with others? Is it that performing is enjoyable and rewarding and the physical issues are just a distraction?

Perhaps because my reward for playing piano is in the various things I learn I don't feel an urge to share my music-making. I do not enjoy performing, ergo I don't (usually) do it. I can understand the social side. I can understand that when a person plays a band instrument, or even sings in a choir, there is usually an expectation to contribute to the demonstration of the group's success/learning. Piano you could play on a deserted island and it would still be a wonderful thing surely?

ShiroKuro

TLH21 I am genuinely curious about the urge to perform when it makes a person so physically uncomfortable. Is it to improve exam performance? Is it because of a desire to make music with others?

This is an understandable question, and I know there are a lot of people who only want to play for themselves. so I can only speak for myself, but I love playing for people. Also I do feel that I learn and grow a huge amount from public performance, so that part (improvement) is an additional (although secondary) motivation. And my motivation isn’t tied to exam performance either. In my case, it’s only very recently that I’ve had any exams, and in fact it’s the reverse, I see the exams as a way to help me improve my performance ability.

I do also want to be able to make music with others (hence my plan to do some duets with a cellist, I’m very excited about that!) But when I’m playing with another musician in my own home, I don’t really get nervous, or at least heretofore, I haven’t. I might be a little nervous the first time I play with this cellist, because he’s basically a professional musician (and so, so talented)

Anyway, back to your comments… I actually wouldn’t describe the performance anxiety I get as “physically uncomfortable.” If the shaky hands didn’t get in the way of my playing, I would just experience it as maybe heightened excitement, like happy butterflies, not a feeling of doom or dread.

Is it that performing is enjoyable and rewarding and the physical issues are just a distraction?

Yes, this is it. And so my efforts to reduce or “overcome” the shakes are because the shakes get in the way of something I want to do, they make it harder for me to successfully do something I want to be able to do well.

Perhaps because my reward for playing piano is in the various things I learn I don't feel an urge to share my music-making. I do not enjoy performing, ergo I don't (usually) do it. I can understand the social side. I can understand that when a person plays a band instrument, or even sings in a choir, there is usually an expectation to contribute to the demonstration of the group's success/learning. Piano you could play on a deserted island and it would still be a wonderful thing surely?

Yes, it would still be wonderful just playing all by myself. But for whatever reason, I also really love playing for others. And when a perfomance goes well, even if not perfect (and even when I only played at say 80% of my ability or 80% of how I play at home by myself) I feel incredibly happy.

So I don’t know where it comes from, and I have not thought too much about it, but I do have the urge to share my music-making. I have never thought too deeply about that (about why) because it just feels natural to me.

I want to play. I want to play for others. I play, I play for others.

And so…

I want to be able to play better, and be able to play more difficult music, so I practice and do all kinds of things to continue to improve my playing ability.

I want to be able to play for others and be able to be better at playing for others, and so I practice performance and do all kinds of things to improve my performance ability. Overcoming the shakes is just a normal part of that.

It’s all part of the same package for me.

TC3

TLH21 Piano you could play on a deserted island and it would still be a wonderful thing surely?

Absolutely. I enjoying learning and playing piano, even all by my lonesome. 🙂

TLH21 Is it because of a desire to make music with others? Is it that performing is enjoyable and rewarding and the physical issues are just a distraction?

Yes to those as well. I've been involved in music since I was a kid, mainly saxophone (classical and jazz) and bass (upright and electric; classical, jazz, rock). I enjoy performing, and I never used to experience too much performance anxiety, even when playing advanced unaccompanied solo music in front of larger audiences, expert judges, etc. It was quite a surprise to discover that piano / keys cause more anxiety for me, especially solo but also to a lesser extent in a band content. Most of the time it is not a big deal, but as mentioned above there are times when it is more severe. I'd like to do something about that so that I can keep doing what I enjoy.