More pianomakers experimenting with narrower keyboards

Gombessa · 2026-06-03T15:30:30+00:00

Saw this a few days ago, to my great joy: And I know Steingraeber also demo'd a narrow-key action: As has Hailun: https://www.hailun-pianos.com/my-size-keys And I'm sure some others as well. I hope we see continued development and adoption on this front, the "one size fits all" mentality with piano really boggles my mind.

Gombessa

KevinM IIRC, there is actually a bit more variation in the width and position of the black keys, even today. Some pianos have narrower black keys, and some wider ones, and different pianos space out their black keys differently even accounting for width.If you look very closely, you'll notice that black keys aren't uniformly spaced between white keys. A C# isn't positioned next to its C natural in the same way the D/D#, F/F#, G/G# or A/A# pairs are, they're all different.

So even with a narrower total keyboard, it's possible that "fat fingers between ebonies" can be mitigated by the profile and/or positioning of those keys.

ShiroKuro

I have noticed that black keys vary a lot from one piano to another (with contemporary instruments I mean). I don’t like pianos where the black keys are too skinny, I feel like they’re easier to slip off of or mis-play.

That’s another reason why I like my Yamaha C2 so much, the keys themselves just feel good under the fingers. My lesson piano for the last year was a junky S&S in the music building , probably less than 40 years old, regularly tuned but also just a beat up practice room piano. But thing I like least about it is the skinny black keys. 👎

Gombessa

ShiroKuro That’s another reason why I like my Yamaha C2 so much, the keys themselves just feel good under the fingers. My lesson piano for the last year was a junky S&S in the music building , probably less than 40 years old, regularly tuned but also just a beat up practice room piano. But thing I like least about it is the skinny black keys.

Oh that's funny, the specific piano I was thinking about when I was writing about fatter black keys was in fact a Yamaha C3, and in comparison the skinnier-key one in my mind was a Steinway B!

WieWaldi

Never payed too much attention, how different the black keys are shaped at different piano makers. On my Kaway, they are a bit narrower on the top compared to the bottom. I don't understand why they do it this way, except for aesthetic reasons maybe. I would prefer if the side walls would go straight down.
When I play white keys between the blacks, sometimes I stuck on a black key. Sometimes I press the adjacent white one. Both issues would be better if the keys wouldn't get thicker at the bottom.

iternabe

WieWaldi On my Kaway, they are a bit narrower on the top compared to the bottom. I don't understand why they do it this way, except for aesthetic reasons maybe.

This diagram was made from measurements of my Kawai MP11SE. Because the key sticks will extend to the actions which are mounted with equal lateral distance in between, the geometry dictates the centerline of each key must also be at equal intervals distance-wise. The result of this is there aren‘t much leeway for key width at fallboard. In other words, it would be much easier to vary the side slope by changing the width at the top of the black keys, as opposed at the bottom. Another concern is that the bottom width of the black key is the true width of the key stick, which affects the strength and flex and cannot be too thin.

One curious fact this diagram illustrates is the widths of the white keys between the black keys are not the same. C, D, E are wider than F, G, A, B.

ShiroKuro

WieWaldi how different the black keys are shaped at different piano makers. On my Kaway, they are a bit narrower on the top compared to the bottom. I don't understand why they do it this way, except for aesthetic reasons maybe. I would prefer if the side walls would go straight down.

I prefer the black keys the way they are, slightly tapered so the top is smaller than the base. If you need to slide the same finger from a black key to its adjacent white key, this design helps make that movement/transition smooth.

WieWaldi

iternabe I don't know why you made this picture. Everyone can see with blank eyes, the black keys aren't centered between the whites; except G^♯. They designed it the way to have the most possible space for the white keys between the blacks.

iternabe the geometry dictates the centerline of each key must also be at equal intervals distance-wise.

I don't think so. Many keysticks are angled behind the fallboard because of various reasons, having a slight angle because of unequal distances wouldn't matter. I am very sure, the true reason is to maximize the width of the white keys between the blacks.

iternabe Another concern is that the bottom width of the black key is the true width of the key stick, which affects the strength and flex and cannot be too thin.

If a narrow keyboard is possible, it shouldn't be a problem to have black keys with equal widths at the bottom and top. Especially not in 2026, nowadays the materials are very much improved compared to the 18th century. Carbon fiber could be a better choice. But if a manufacturer insists in wood, he could use a harder type of wood as well. The wood used for piano keysticks isn't the hardest, it is one of the lighter types with a good balance between stability and weight.

WieWaldi

ShiroKuro I prefer the black keys the way they are, slightly tapered so the top is smaller than the base. If you need to slide the same finger from a black key to its adjacent white key, this design helps make that movement/transition smooth.

Different hands, different fingers, different tastes.

btw, I don't think this slight slope does a difference at sliding down. I feel a difference when I slide down over then end of a black key, because it is has almost a 45° slope, but those 5° to 10°?

Maybe it makes the intro of I don't like Mondays it bit smoother. Anyway, it seems on his Yamaha, the slopes seem to be more perpendicular than on my Kawai. 😀

ShiroKuro

WieWaldi Different hands, different fingers, different tastes.

yes indeed!

btw, I don't think this slight slope does a difference at sliding down.

I'll have to check the next time I play a piano that's not mine. And I won't be back to that crummy S&S until the fall semester starts, but I hope I can check that one out as well. Because this thread has really made me curious!

Anyway, it seems on his Yamaha, the slopes seem to be more perpendicular than on my Kawai.

Oh that's interesting!

KevinM

WieWaldi now this takes me back. I obtained the score for I don’t like Mondays in 1980 and did a pretty good job of it then.

Not interested in trying to revive it like I did not so well of Stairway to Heaven more recently.

ShiroKuro

Gombessa that is funny! I bet that piano I was talking about is a B. I wonder if different S&S Pinots, or maybe pianos from different eras, have different black key dimensions.

Many years ago (like 12 IIRC) I took lessons on a Steinway grand that was maybe close to 200 years old. It had fewer than 88 keys (maybe 85 keys?) and it had been fully restored by a master piano restorer. It had the most amazing sound, although the action was a little heavy. Anyway, at the time, my home piano was a Yamaha digital. I do not have any memory of having trouble with the keyboard on that Steinway, or feeling like the keys were somehow different from my home piano. My overriding memory of that Steinway was just how much I loved playing it…. Which is to say, if the black keys on that Steinway were skinny, I didn’t notice it.

I wish I could go back and play that piano…. I assume it’s still there (it was in a church, my piano teacher was the church’s music director).

thepianoplayer416

Bechstein coming out with 6,0 (6 inches per octave) pianos instead of the standard 6.5. Going to be a game changer for the 20+% men and the majority women with small hands...

Gombessa

I just saw this video and came here to post it! You beat me to it.

I have big enough hands for the standard 6.5 octave keyboard, but I will NEVER pass any opportunity that comes forward to advocate for instruments made to fit better for players.

One interesting note in the video, at about 7:00 in the video he claims that in 1880 the piano industry standardized the key width based on a study of EU male hand sizes. I had not heard this before, either that it was some agreed-to standard or that there was some objective basis for it.

MRC

Gombessa One interesting note in the video, at about 7:00 in the video he claims that in 1880 the piano industry standardized the key width based on a study of EU male hand sizes.

News to me. I'd like to see a source for that.

thepianoplayer416

I can barely reach 1 octave on a standard piano. The Yamaha Piaggero NP-30 has 76 narrow keys. The keys are only semi-weighted but can be plugged into a computer and use virtual instruments out of Pianoteq. It's an alternative to paying thousands of dollars for an Athena with a better action & sound close to an acoustic piano.

I've come across a few really old pianos in historic churches and senior homes at least 50 years old. So far I haven't notice an upright or grand with narrow keys. Guess a 6.0 would be a good compromise than going down to 5.5 like the Athena Narrow Keys keyboard.

MRC

thepianoplayer416 I've come across a few really old pianos in historic churches and senior homes at least 50 years old

I've played pianos and harpsichords from the 18th and 19th centuries. In most cases, the key widths are very near to those of modern pianos.

thepianoplayer416

Did Chopin has small hands?

According to here Chopin played on different pianos instead of 1 custom-made for him. Of course great piano composers including Liszt, Chopin, Rachmaninov had written pieces that require stretching to a 10th. Some people think hand stretching exercises along would allow them to reach a 10th. The risk is hands injury.

MRC

Sebastien Dupuis is absolutely right in the video above about Chopin's hand size. The pianos Chopin played on had keys almost exactly the same width as those of modern pianos, and Chopin's hands were pretty near in size to those of an average man, with maybe (looking at the cast of his hand) slightly longer, thinner fingers.

That doesn't negate the importance of building narrower keyboards for pianists who really do have small hands. It's just important not to give incorrect reasons for doing this.

pseudonym58

I suppose, and I'm sure that this has already been mentioned in this long thread, if the only piano you're likely to play is your own, then a narrower keyboard could make sense. Otherwise, go somewhere else where there is a piano, someone suggests Can you play us something? and it's unnecessarily difficult.

MRC

I've heard this from several pianists who have invested in a narrow key piano: the technical ease they gain from practicing on their narrow keyboard also makes playing on a standard keyboard somewhat easier than it was before. They'll still prefer their narrow keyboard, but they will also be capable of playing their repertoire on the standard keyboard at least as well as they used to, if not better.

Once they have got used to the narrower keyboard, and then made the experience of swapping between that and a standard one à few times, they usually find that swapping becomes extremely easy: adaptation is immediate.

WieWaldi

MRC Interesting. Didn't expect that. My hands are big enough for a standard keyboard, octaves are easy, ninths well doable, but I struggle a lot with tens. I am curious how a 6" keyboard feels. I think a 5.5" could be too narrow because of my sausage shaped fingers; even now I feel somtimes to get stuck between 2 black keys when I play the whites near the fallboard.
Would be nice if a 5.5 and 6 inch standard etablishes and most important: The big companies would start to make bread and butter products with those narrower keyboards. Actually, this makes totally sense, because this way they can lure kids into their brand, offering a $1000 digital that is cheap enough for parents to try out but doesn't feel like a toy. Basically make narrow variants of their best seller lines.

ShiroKuro

MRC I've read something that basically describes that as well. It was one of the things that really caught my attention, because it makes it seem more "do-able" or realistic to have a narrow-key keyboard at home and still play regular keyboards elsewhere.

« Previous Page Next Page »