New Kawai Master Series Upright Pianos

navindra

This is news to me. I'm well-acquainted with the Kawai K Series pianos but apparently Kawai has some entirely new upright pianos on the market:

The Kawai Master Series represents the pinnacle of Kawai’s upright piano craftsmanship. Designed without compromise, these instruments unite decades of piano-making tradition with refined structural design to deliver an authentic acoustic playing experience—one that empowers pianists to fully realize their musical ideals. It is built for players who value depth, control, and lasting musical substance.

Kawai announces new premium upright piano “Master Series” MS-134/130/123

Kawai Master Series Upright Pianos

Kawai Master Series Philosophy

I'm not sure how this is different from the K series or if it will eventually replace that series.

Built upon the trusted foundation of the K-Series, the Master Series is shaped around a refined structural design created to stand firm over time. At its core is a strengthened back framework that provides quiet confidence, supporting the instrument as it holds tension, preserves balance, and allows the sound to develop freely. This underlying strength gives the piano a sense of stability you can feel from the first note, particularly in the lower register, where depth and presence rely on a structure that will not yield. The soundboard, crafted from carefully selected, straight-grained solid spruce and subtly tapered by hand, is allowed to resonate naturally, responding with warmth, clarity, and control. The result is an instrument that feels grounded and assured, a piano whose strength is never heard, but always felt. A foundation of stability that supports expressive tone and preserves the musical character of the Master Series for years to come.

Stu Harrison covers this briefly here @ 6:18:

CrisOliveira

navindra
I remember the announcement some months ago. I doubt it will replace the K series. The amount of extra labor put in this new series, along with higher standard in materials, will certainly set it at a higher price range.

Is it just my impression or is the keyboard of the Master Series really more protruded towards the player? Are the keysticks longer than the K series? This is the kind of information Kawai should include in the specs section, if they're going to include a specs section at all. Of all the information one would like to know, I guess pivot length would be one of the most appreciated. Especially when Kawai themselves brag about it, but never states the true length.

I commented under one of Merriam Music videos about my digital piano feeling more like an upright than a grand and one of the channel's admins told me it's probably because of pivot length. So when I see an upright with longer keysticks, I get really curious about how it feels.

CrisOliveira

sweelinck These appear additionally to incorporate some features of the Shigeru line— hand wound bass strings instead of robot-wound ones, greater structural robustness, maybe Shigeru series hammer felt.

What's the advantage of winding strings by hand? It seems to me a job a machine would do more consistently.

I became skeptical of "hand made" claims after I saw how much automation goes in the making of Shigerus. One doesn't have to do much search in order to find videos claiming Shigerus are hand made.

CrisOliveira Of all the information one would like to know, I guess pivot length would be one of the most appreciated. Especially when Kawai themselves brag about it, but never states the true length.

According to what I've recently read in an acoustic piano forum, the acoustic crowd doesn't care that much about pivot length, as they state many other factors are more important than that. Although longer length in upright pianos might be interesting, I've also found out Kawai's pivot length sales pitch is kinda overblown. They state that about every model they sell, yet SK-EX's doesn't seem to be any longer than the competition's. Nonetheless, people who have played it says it might be the nicest action in the market. Probably everything else factors in. Just like popular wisdom says, size is not everything.

pianocat

Sostenuto pedal on an upright is pretty unique. They look very nice, and also very expensive. 💸

sweelinck

Previously, they came out with an A series that is being marketed in China. The A-800 looked to me to be very similar to a K-800, but the A-500 and A-300 appeared to get some of the upgrades that are in the K-800 (Royal George hammer felt as an example).

The Master Series appear additionally to incorporate some features of the Shigeru line— hand wound bass strings instead of robot-wound ones, greater structural robustness, maybe Shigeru series hammers.

iternabe

CrisOliveira According to what I've recently read in an acoustic piano forum, the acoustic crowd doesn't care that much about pivot length, as they state many other factors are more important than that. Although longer length in upright pianos might be interesting, I've also found out Kawai's pivot length sales pitch is kinda overblown. They state that about every model they sell, yet SK-EX's doesn't seem to be any longer than the competition's. Nonetheless, people who have played it says it might be the nicest action in the market. Probably everything else factors in. Just like popular wisdom says, size is not everything.

The only sure thing that pivot length determines is the touch weight at the back of the key relative to the front of the key - nothing else can affect that. And @KevinM is right as the pivot length become longer, its effect on the difference in front to back touch weight would become smaller because the effect is by ratio.

All other things people mention about longer pivot length, such as easier to control soft dynamics, smoothness of the touch, quality of the tone, etc., can be affected (sometimes greatly) by regulation of other components of the action.

sweelinck

CrisOliveira
Pianos smaller than concert grands have shorter keysticks than concert grands. If a 5’8” grand had the keystick length of a concert grand, it would allocate some length to the keystick that could be allocated to the soundboard. It also changes the strike point, and that is designed for proper balance in various ways.

The keysticks on the K-800 are among, if not the longest of any upright. It gives the action a level of control and feel that is closer to that of a grand than many other uprights achieve. There still is the need for the key to be close to its resting place before being struck again, which is characteristic of uprights.

sweelinck

CrisOliveira According to what I've recently read in an acoustic piano forum, the acoustic crowd doesn't care that much about pivot length, as they state many other factors are more important than that.

Other factors are more important because acoustic pianos of decent quality don’t have pivot length problems. The issue is salient for digital pianos because of the considerable number of instruments with pivots that are too short.

Vuong

CrisOliveira
Winding string by hand is still being used by many German piano makers. I have seen it done at the Sauter factory by a man who is a specialist. Next to him there is also a machine to wind the bass string. I was told it is rarely used.

KevinM

I've gone on about pivot length quite a bit in my time. I think because my first two digital pianos had pivot lengths under 20cm.

Once you are over 23cm or so the diminishing returns of the benefits of longer pivot length kicks in. I doubt there are many grand pianos with a pivot length less than this, so I think the discussion of pivot length for grand pianos is pretty much an irrelevancy. Size is relevant up to a point and beyond that others things become more important.

So I can think a discussion about pivot length for uprights is relevant in a way that it isn't for grands.

CrisOliveira

sweelinck There still is the need for the key to be close to its resting place before being struck again, which is characteristic of uprights.

I'm still a bit puzzled by the fact that repetition mechanisms are not yet a standard for upright pianos. Sure, it's one more thing that may falter and wear out, but that goes with everything.

WieWaldi

navindra

WieWaldi Sounds very nice compared to the K500! Definitely an interesting tone.

sweelinck

The K-800 would be a more interesting comparison with the MS series.

CHAS

Better than the Yamaha YUS series or simply more hyped?
Time will tell?

sweelinck

CHAS

One difference between the Kawai and Yamaha upright product lines that have been marketed in the US is that Kawai uprights get enhancements in materials and design as the pianos get taller, while Yamaha has a separate line for different quality points.

The K-300 competes with a U-1 but a K-800 competes with a YUS-5. Kawai has had no offering similar to a YUS-1, for instance.

sweelinck

Given that I preferred a K-800 to a YUS-5, I doubt that the YUS series will be able to match them.

thepianoplayer416

After reading the description, I'm not clear if the M-series is considered an upgrade of the K-series. At the moment looks like the 2 lines have distinct differences for targeting musicians with different preferences.

Recently I played on a K-800 in a music studio. A great piano sound with lots of resonance and notes sustain. Between the lower and higher models is the height of the cabinet giving a bigger sound as you move up.

Looks like the M-series has only 3 to choose from while the K-series has 8 starting with the K-15, K-200 up to K-800. If you count the K-800 and K-800 AS separately and also the K-500 Limited Edition there would be 10 choices for the K-series. And when you get to the K-800 & 800 AS you have a tall music stand in front than a small flap that folds down.

An upright piano usually doesn't appear on stage featuring piano as a solo instrument. They show up in a play or musical since they take up less space. Otherwise they're intended for serious or professional musicians who don't have the space at home for a grand piano but want a similar sound and touch.

A while ago came across a Boston UP-132 at the Steinway Gallery in Boston. It's a piano designed by Steinway and manufactured in the same factory in Hamamatsu, Japan. With some shared components and a similar height to the K-800, these are different pianos with a different sound.

WieWaldi

thepianoplayer416 I think the M-series is quite hard to place in the market.

Compared to the K series, what is the difference?
Well: You pay more money than for a similar sized K-series.
You get a better sound than the similar sized K-series.

But if you don't compare the piano by their size, but the price instead, the picture is very different:
For instance:
K800 = 15.450 €
MS123 = 17.490 € (may drop to K800 level, but remains similar)
K800 is 11 cm higher (4½")
K800 has a 8 cm longer no.1 string (3¼")
K800 offers duplex scaling, MS does not
K800 is 2 cm deeper, I suspect therefore the keystick to a be as long if not longer than the MS123.

Bottom line: I think the K800 sounds better than the MS123. For the same money.

What are the advantages of the MS123?
You save 2 cm footprint of depth. The width is equal. It is not that tall. But honestly, nobody cares about how much space up in the air an upright piano needs? And those 2cm depth saving is nothing I would call a significant advantage for limited spaces.

IMO, premium series won't make too much sense in the upright market. Opposed to grands, because with grands you can step up to a higher series for the same money: similar sound quality but significant less floor space.

Ok, there is a market for the MS134, because if money doesn't play a role and you want the best sound a limited floor spacek, it is a contender. But with the smaller models like MS123?!? .....no...... I don't see too much customers for it.

sweelinck

thepianoplayer416
What I observed about the Boston UP-132PE and other Boston uprights is that they seem to get less prep at the factory than the Kawai K series uprights. As a result, whether any, and how much prep was done by the Steinway dealer where one is being marketed has a significant impact on the tone, particularly on octave 5 sustain.

The K-800AS (K-800 + sostenuto pedal) is the only K-800 model marketed in the US. The K-600 (K-800 without sostenuto or grand style fallboard and music desk) is available in the US. The MS-134 also lacks the grand style fallboard and music desk.

It appears that the new MS series uprights have the same Millenium III upright action as the K series uprights, but the hammers are upgraded. The K-800 uses felt on which Kawai has slapped the Royal George label. The MS series apparently uses Shigeru style hammers. The keystick length of the shorter 48” model, MS-123 seems to match that of the MS-130 and K-500. I don’t know if the K-800 and MS-134 have an even longer keystick, but they have an additional inch of depth.

As best I can tell, the K-800 has hammers that are machine pressed with concert-grade felt, while the M series and Shigeru’s have hammers that are handmade with concert-grade felt.

The MS-134 is 48kgs heavier than the K-800. The sostenuto and mute rail lever of the K-800AS adds some weight, but the MS-134 will still be much heavier. I assume this mostly is due to the more reinforced case. Other differences include a re-designed pressure bar and hand wound bass strings on the MS-134. The strings may be installed by hand on the MS series vs. by machine on the K series.

I agree re: the excellent sustain and resonance of the K-800. It also has a neutral tone— different from the warm tone of the K-500.

thepianoplayer416

Have to find out if there are noticeable differences in the action and the sound.