Chopin Mazurka op 17 no 4 wide chord

ZigZagStory

This mazurka has been on my list for a long time and I finally had time to work on it.
Measure 91 (end of the middle part) has a wide chord (10th) that my small hands can’t reach.
I tried rolling the chord but it doesn’t sound so good in my opinion.
What would you do in this case?

Link to this measure:

PS Horowitz‘s interpretation is not my favorite but I liked the sentence he said before he started playing.

pianoloverus

Choices: Listen to other performers and see what they do if they can't reach the 10th, Leave out one note in the right hand, Play the low D in the right hand an octave higher, roll both chords in the left hand and right hand, play the lowest note in the left hand as a grace note and then take the low D in the right hand with the left hand

ZigZagStory

pianoloverus
Thanks for your answer.
I’ve watched a few YouTube videos where the hands are visible but so far all (male pianists) reached the 10th . I will try searching more.

pianoloverus

I listened to the Horowitz video you posted several times and also listened to it at a slower speed. I'm pretty sure Horowitz very quickly rolls the three notes in the left hand and then plays the D in the treble clef with the left hand simultaneously with the G#and F using the right hand.

TheBoringPianist

In the video you shared, I'm pretty sure he's rolling the entire chord including LH (you can hear the G# sound before the F)... he starts the roll before the beat so that the F lands in time and you don't disrupt the flow.

pianoloverus

TheBoringPianist That could certainly be correct. I listened to it many times but found it very difficult to hear exactly what he was doing.

To change the subject for a second, let me tell you a story inspired by your screen name. (Hopefully this is not a repeat of the same story that I told at some earlier time which I'm sometimes guilty of). More than a half century ago when I was playing the opening measures of Chopin's Ballade No.1 for my piano teacher (I was not a piano major) he abruptly stopped me and said "That was very boring!" So every time I see one of your posts, that story pops back into my mind.😁

MRC

What a wonderful, magical piece. It was a favourite of mine when I was a student: thank you for reminding me of it.

I just played it through for pure pleasure and noticed that I quickly rolled the chord you asked about. I'm sure I always did this and I don't think I ever gave it a moment's thought: it was just what came naturally. Since you asked this specific question, I went back over the passage to see how it would sound if I didn't roll it. I can just stretch that chord, but it's not very comfortable and I don't have so much control over the dynamics of individual fingers in this position.

I find that I prefer the roll: it intensifies the feeling of anguish as you land on that chord. The speed of the roll is important: it needs to be incisive, not languorous or pompously slow. I'm happy to hear that I find myself in good company: Horowitz is also playing a fast roll.

And do remember: rolling chords was the norm back in the 18th and 19th centuries.

But that's only a detail in the whole piece. Much more important is bringing out all the shades of nostalgia, melancholy, mystery and whatever other sentiments you may find in this piece.

ZigZagStory

Thank you all for your smart comments.
Indeed I hear that Mr. Horowitz is rolling the chord in left hand. I’ll continue to experiment with rolling and hope that mine will improve.

And yes I still have a lot of work to do, I only started working on this piece.

MRC

It's an excellent piece for working on delicate dynamic shading, and balance both between the hands and between individual notes of a chord. Here's a little trick my teacher showed me: in the first four bars, play the inner voice with the right hand:

That permits you to shape that inner melody much more easily than if you play all the notes as written, with the left hand.

twocats

MRC Here's a little trick my teacher showed me: in the first four bars, play the inner voice with the right hand

Interesting, I'm playing the top note with the right hand but letting the inner voice be played with the left hand, somehow I'm able to voice it more subtlely that way since I don't have to cross hands. Your method is a great solution if voicing the top note is a challenge though!

Rubens

I can't stretch that much, so the way I play it is to play the low A and then the rest of the chord, redistributing the rest to fit my hands, with the left hand playing the D written for the right hand. As for pedaling, I change pedal at the previous chord and keep it down for this chord, because the harmony works that way, fortunately.