Could someone please help with a fakebook piece?

Kaydia

Hi, I decided to try doing one of the fakebook pieces, "Leaving on a Jet Plane", from my "Your First Fake Book" book. Well, I immediately ran into a problem with chords and notes sharing the same keys. I'm not sure what is the best way, or if there's a best practice for when this happens.

The only chords used in this piece are C, F, and G. I was going to use them as CEG, CFA, and DGB. I could still do that and move the RH up an octave, which doesn't sound horrible to me. I didn't really like it, though, when I tried with the LH an octave lower.

Or would the better option be to rearrange the letters to GEC, FAC, and GBD (assuming I did that correctly), and keep the RH as notated?

Any thoughts on which approach above is best, or if there are other options? To keep things simple, I am just planning on using block chords.

ranjit

I think the second inversion I major (C major chord) may not the best as the first chord, because it functions differently than a root position or first inversion chord.

You can also omit notes. You could play CE FC or FAC GB

Or you could play EGC FAC DFGB, which is probably what I would do (the last one is a G7 instead of a simple G chord).

Animisha

Kaydia, even though you don't like it, I think that you need to play the chords one octave lower than the melody. Rearranging so you can play them in between the melody notes is a big hassle.
Of course, if you want to do something special, you can also the chords have one octave higher, but I don't think you're after that effect.

As this piece is in C major, I would also many times play C major as CEG. That lower C is called the tonic and it is nice for the ears if the lowest note is C.
I think that I would do: CEG ACF GBD.

iternabe

When you get to the lead sheet lessons in the Faber book, just listen to what Gale (Let’s Play Piano Methods guy) says. Generally, for beginner, the chords are played with minimal change in hand position. So the I, IV, V, V7 chords for C major is played with CEG, CFA, BDG, and BFG if you hand want to stay around the bass clef C position. In Faber book 2 it begins to make the left hand move around more. But I think it’s best to get the fixed position chord progression learned well first.

I would also recommend getting Alfred’s Scales and Arpeggios book. In that book, for each key, it has a “Cadence” exercise that shows you fingering to practice I-IV-I-V/V7-I chord progression in root position, 1st inversion, and 2nd inversion. It’s good reference even if you don’t practice them all. If you do practice more than a few keys, you will realize there a common theme how finger position moves between these chords.

ranjit

Animisha even though you don't like it, I think that you need to play the chords one octave lower than the melody

I disagree. It would sound quite muddy to play chords that low. I just listened to the original, and it's mostly guitar arpeggios which would be much further up.

Animisha

iternabe So the I, IV, V, V7 chords for C major is played with CEG, CFA,

The problem with CFA, if you play blocked chords one octave below, is that the second measure starts with the A that is needed for the chord, which is why I moved it to ACF.

Animisha

ranjit But if you play C major in the same octave as the notes, E and C are already used for the melody in the first measure.

pseudonym58

You can try and experiment and start with your left hand thumb on the C below middle C. Before trying to play the triads and their inversions, simply play the bass note which would be C with the thumb, F with the fifth finger, and G with the fourth finger. Now experiment with adding a second note to each bass note, and see what sounds "right". You can then perhaps also as third note to each eventually, etc.
You're not going to easily get the voicings and sounds of an acoustic guitar on the keyboard, so it will always sound different. You don't want to have the accompaniment interfere with the melody. But you don't want to play the accompaniment too low, as the notes will sound "muddy" together.
One last suggestion: you might think in terms of the rhythm as much as the particular notes you're going to use beyond the root of the chords. If you think of the rhythm that a bass player would use, a little syncopation would help keep it from sounding too square.

Kaydia

Thank you all for the responses. Unfortunately, I don't have time to carefully read through everything right at the moment. I'll be back after I take care of a bunch of errands.

thepianoplayer416

People mentioned chord inversions already. I'd play the C chord as: GCE (2nd inversion). F as ACF (1st inversion) with the C in the middle the same. G as GBD in the root position. Playing chords (root or inversion) close together would avoid big jumps from 1 to the other. The chord in the beginning bars alternate between C-chord & F-chord until the end of the phrase with a G-chord.

There is no tempo indication on the sheet. Haven't heard the song before so don't know if the playing should be slow or fast.

Counting the melody is a bit tricky with notes that are not on the beat (syncopated rhythm).

iternabe

iternabe I would also recommend getting Alfred’s Scales and Arpeggios book. In that book, for each key, it has a “Cadence” exercise that shows you fingering to practice I-IV-I-V/V7-I chord progression in root position, 1st inversion, and 2nd inversion.

Here is an example of Cadences in the Alfred book. Maybe use the 3rd position and play all chords between G2 and F3?

iternabe

Animisha The problem with CFA, if you play blocked chords one octave below, is that the second measure starts with the A that is needed for the chord, which is why I moved it to ACF.

The piece I am learning now in Faber book 2 has one just like that. Their solution for beginner is left hand just play the lower two notes of the chord to allow the right hand play the top note as melody.

Of course this is only necessary when playing blocked chord, which is another beginner only problem. If played as broken chords, then there are numerous patterns available to avoid the conflict. One thing I will say is lead sheet may appears easy, but it has not been easy to me.

Kaydia

ranjit You can also omit notes. You could play CE FC or FAC GB

Or you could play EGC FAC DFGB, which is probably what I would do (the last one is a G7 instead of a simple G chord).

I hadn't thought of omitting notes as an option. So if I use CE FC GB, that would encompass (from the bottom) the F in the 2nd group of 3 black keys through the E in the 3 group of black keys.

And the other chords you suggested would be played a bit lower?

Kaydia

Animisha [Kaydia], even though you don't like it, I think that you need to play the chords one octave lower than the melody. Rearranging so you can play them in between the melody notes is a big hassle.
Of course, if you want to do something special, you can also the chords have one octave higher, but I don't think you're after that effect.

As this piece is in C major, I would also many times play C major as CEG. That lower C is called the tonic and it is nice for the ears if the lowest note is C.
I think that I would do: CEG ACF GBD.

I agree, I don't want the melody overlapping the chords. Maybe it's my digital, but the lower keys sound like too much. I will give it another try, though. Maybe @ranjit's suggestion to omit some notes lower down will sound better.

Kaydia

iternabe When you get to the lead sheet lessons in the Faber book, just listen to what Gale (Let’s Play Piano Methods guy) says. Generally, for beginner, the chords are played with minimal change in hand position. So the I, IV, V, V7 chords for C major is played with CEG, CFA, BDG, and BFG if you hand want to stay around the bass clef C position. In Faber book 2 it begins to make the left hand move around more. But I think it’s best to get the fixed position chord progression learned well first.

I would also recommend getting Alfred’s Scales and Arpeggios book. In that book, for each key, it has a “Cadence” exercise that shows you fingering to practice I-IV-I-V/V7-I chord progression in root position, 1st inversion, and 2nd inversion. It’s good reference even if you don’t practice them all. If you do practice more than a few keys, you will realize there a common theme how finger position moves between these chords.

Thanks for the suggestions. I just looked in the Faber book, and It'll be a while until I get to the one with a lead sheet. Though I can certainly still listen to Gale's video.

I do have an Alfred’s Scales and Arpeggios book. The problem for me is moving the chords out of the way of the melody. I'm not sure how the book would help with that. I'm still new at chords so I may be missing something.

Edit:

iternabe Here is an example of Cadences in the Alfred book. Maybe use the 3rd position and play all chords between G2 and F3?

Thanks for the image. I see now how you're using it to choose a cadence position.

Kaydia

ranjit I disagree. It would sound quite muddy to play chords that low. I just listened to the original, and it's mostly guitar arpeggios which would be much further up.

iternabe Of course this is only necessary when playing blocked chord, which is another beginner only problem. If played as broken chords, then there are numerous patterns available to avoid the conflict.

So now I'm wondering if I'm limiting myself here by going with block chords. Hmmm. This is harder than I thought. 🙃

Kaydia

pseudonym58 You can try and experiment and start with your left hand thumb on the C below middle C. Before trying to play the triads and their inversions, simply play the bass note which would be C with the thumb, F with the fifth finger, and G with the fourth finger. Now experiment with adding a second note to each bass note, and see what sounds "right". You can then perhaps also as third note to each eventually, etc.
You're not going to easily get the voicings and sounds of an acoustic guitar on the keyboard, so it will always sound different. You don't want to have the accompaniment interfere with the melody. But you don't want to play the accompaniment too low, as the notes will sound "muddy" together.

Yes, I'm in agreement about not playing too low on the keyboard. I will definitely give your suggestion a try and play around with the sounds. Also, I believe that's the area where @ranjit suggested the 2-note chords.

pseudonym58 One last suggestion: you might think in terms of the rhythm as much as the particular notes you're going to use beyond the root of the chords. If you think of the rhythm that a bass player would use, a little syncopation would help keep it from sounding too square.

I confess I don't know what rhythm a bass player would use. I've heard this song before so if I play it like it's sung will it naturally be syncopated?

Kaydia

thepianoplayer416 People mentioned about chord inversions already. I'd play the C chord as is: GCE (2nd inversion). F as ACF (1st inversion) with the C in the middle the same. G as GBD in the root position. Playing chords (root or inversion) close together would avoid big jumps from 1 to the other. The chord in the beginning bars alternate between C-chord & F-chord until the end of the phrase with a G-chord.

There is no tempo indication on the sheet. Haven't heard the song before so don't know if the playing should be slow or fast.

Counting the melody is a bit tricky with notes that are not on the beat (syncopated rhythm).

Thank you for the video! That looks doable. I will give your chords suggestion a try as well. So many choices!!

iternabe

Kaydia So now I'm wondering if I'm limiting myself here by going with block chords. Hmmm. This is harder than I thought. 🙃

One step at a time. Do the blocked chord first. Get everything right. Pay special attention to rhythm. With the dotted notes and ties, there is chance to not get the rhythm exactly right unless you count out loud (or at least record it and clap alone with playback to check). When you progress to use broken chords, any imprecision in rhythm will cause a mess.

diretonic

Kaydia I don't know your level. Could you play something like this?

The second pair of bars is fleshed out more - just a thought, or repeat the pattern of the first two bars.

As already noted, LH block chords don't sound very nice if they're played low down, even worse if they're played with any kind of rhythm (except perhaps four-in-a-bar which is just about ok!). With fakebooks, chord charts and the like, try and keep to the roots in the LH.