BartK Do you recommend this book Improvisation at the Piano? What approach does it take to teach improvisation?

The book was helpful to me when I was getting started and I do recommend it as a way to begin. The book consists of short chapters with explanations and exercises. It starts very basic but it does assume that you already know how to play classical music and gets somewhat advanced quickly.

I think the biggest benefits I got from the book were exercises in lots of keys that forced me to work on having what’s going on in one hand not distract from what’s going on in the other hand. That is still a work in progress for me but I think it got me going in a good direction. There were also helpful things to think about in terms of melodies and analyzing music.

I only got through about a third of the book before I ventured into my intense study of scales.

During one of the PW recitals an expert improviser reached out to me privately and gave me some tips that launched me in a new direction: improvising in both hands. That moved me from playing melodies on top of chord progressions to making it all up in both hands at the same time. Again it’s still a work in progress and I think it always will be no matter where inspiration comes from in the future. It’s all about the journey! 😀

    Kaydia I’m glad you started your piano journey! May it give you great joy and pleasure with lots of fun learning along the way! Also, when you’re ready to share I’m looking forward to hearing your playing. It’s always fun to see and hear other people’s piano journeys at all levels!

      Sophia Thanks for sharing the video with your dad. That’s really nice that he learned to play late in life and that you got to play along with him.

      Also, Sophia… you have mad guitar skills! Wow!

        Sgisela I also believe we can always learn and grow and aspire to be better versions of our current selves, in any number of domains of our lives.

        Yes! Thanks Sgisela!

          rogerch Great post, and truly inspiring story!

          I think it’s possible to both accept we may learn slower as we age and believe nothing is impossible until we give it a try and give it time. Also, when I was younger, I always wanted to learn new things in a hurry. Paradoxically, as I get older, I am more comfortable not rush the learning but let steady progress happen over longer term.

              rogerch This is an inspiring post!

              rogerch "The process of nerve growth slows down with age."

              Sometimes, knowledge can be a dangerous thing based on how it's interpreted. This is one of those cases. "Having talent" is also one of those instances where it can be helpful not to think too much about it either way. (That said, I don't think it's wrong to discuss it if the topic arises.)

                    I echo what many stated here, that this thread is inspiring.

                    As someone who is more "innately" an improviser and cannot read music, I have focused this year on technique (so I don't sound like I'm smashing the keys). I also quested to be more proficient on all 12 keys, instead of just "jamming." I also for the first time decided to take playing piano seriously.

                    So whether we're sight readers, or improvisers or both, there is limitless amount of things to learn, which at first can seem daunting, but is actually exciting since you'll never be bored.

                    At the meta level, I also look at the "am I too old to do X," I think of it in very organic simplistic way: I either apply my brain towards something, or I'm just inert. The latter is never conducive, but is often a limiting thought we all have at times. The analysis paralysis can lead to inaction as we then feel discouraged, etc.

                    So to reiterate, in my own head: "I'm either going to get better, or I'm going to regress or be stagnant."

                      HeartKeys As someone who is more "innately" an improviser and cannot read music,

                      That's incredible! Roger might have to make place for you as my improv inspiration 😃 Noooooooo joking, but seriously the few things I have seen you play are incredible. Looking forward to your next recital piece 🙂

                        At my age playing music is less about making progress or competing with anybody. In the beginning it was for stress relief from having a nervous breakdown. Watching older people in the family suffer from dementia, music has become daily brain exercise like taking daily vitamins. You get engaged in your music and progress is part of the process of learning.

                        A lot of older people think they need to start playing at a young age. They need to complete conservatory levels. I get into playing for the personal enjoyment. Older adults don't usually pursue a career as a professional so we tend to get into difficult pieces more gradually.

                        Coming from a non-music family, piano didn't come naturally when I was young. At my age I think about how much I can get out of piano with the years I have left. I don't think about the "lost years" and the progress I would have made if I started piano at 5. It's a great inspiration to see older adults get into piano.

                        iternabe rogerch Great post, and truly inspiring story!

                        I think it’s possible to both accept we may learn slower as we age and believe nothing is impossible until we give it a try and give it time. Also, when I was younger, I always wanted to learn new things in a hurry. Paradoxically, as I get older, I am more comfortable not rush the learning but let steady progress happen over longer term.

                        Thanks iternabe! Taking time to learn instead of rushing sounds more effective and more enjoyable!

                        Regarding learning slower as we age: I choose to disregard any such notion. I don't see how worrying about learning slower helps me. Instead, I focus on the present and what I'm learning today. Fast, slow, it doesn't matter. I'm learning and improving and loving it!

                          rogerch
                          Thank you for your beautiful, warm and inspiring post!

                          All of us who started, restarted or continue, learning to play the piano as adults are a living proof that the old conviction that your ability to learn decreases with age is worth nothing. We just don’t let it happen.

                          I started to learn almost four years ago, when I was 59. I began by learning to read the notes, just using a paper keyboard, a month or two before the piano arrived. It was like learning a completely new language, and I love learning languages, so it was great. Since then, I have been sitting at the piano and learning something new almost every day (and there is always something new to learn, yay!😃). I’m in no hurry, I don’t like racing or competing in anything, I can learn at my own pace – at a pace that gives me time to revel in the process, and be amazed. I could regret that I didn’t start as a child or later as a young independent adult, but what would be the point? And why should I, if every minute I spend now learning to play brings me so much happiness?

                              ranjit Sometimes, knowledge can be a dangerous thing based on how it's interpreted.

                              Yes, especially if the interpretation is only fragmentary or goes the easy way of confirming an already rooted belief. Look at the proverb “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks”. It’s neither true nor justified, but can keep people trapped in their conviction that at a certain age it is impossible to learn or change anything.

                                Gooseberry I could regret that I didn’t start as a child or later as a young independent adult, but what would be the point?

                                Yes, this! So much so! I too could spend my time wringing my hands that I didn't show enough interest as a child, forfeited all opportunity etc, but why would I? I'm learning now and having a great time with it. That's all that counts really!

                                  • Sam

                                  • Post #22

                                  Inspiring @rogerch - I love your improvs!

                                  I'll be 71 in a few days. Restarted when I was 55 after not playing for decades. Went back to school when I was 62 to get a piano performance degree and graduated when I was 66. Learned to memorize during that time and am still at it. Just did a 90 day intensive at Tonebase and learned to play Grieg's "Wedding Day" - and memorized it.

                                  Make practice a habit. Keep learning new things and challenging yourself.

                                  Sam

                                  Sophia What a charming video - those memories of playing together must be very special to you. Looking at the two of you, totally absorbed in the moment and playing in synch, it's clear that the apple did not fall far from the tree. 🙂 On a side note, your father had great hair for his age!

                                  I agree with Gooseberry - it's not true that "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" - but the ability to learn can be impaired by certain health problems that happen as age takes its toll.

                                  I'm a firm advocate for the notion of being a lifelong learner. Learning new things helps to stave off boredom, makes people more rounded and gives us more to talk about. 😁

                                  "Don't let's ask for the moon, we have the stars." (Final line from Now,Voyager, 1942)

                                    rogerch My impression is when someone says that nerve growth slows down with age they are either trying to discourage me from continuing to learn as I age or making excuses for their own or someone else's struggles with learning.

                                    When I say such things it's just by way of acknowledgement of the biological reality, not to deter anyone from learning new things, although I see why some people might interpret it that way, or use it as an excuse not to bother learning as they grow older. For me, it's a way of keeping my expectations real and not berating myself for progressing slower than I'd like to, at times.

                                    Thanks for starting this thread, I enjoyed reading about your piano journey and I agree with your sentiments about following your passion to learn, regardless of age. 🙂

                                    "Don't let's ask for the moon, we have the stars." (Final line from Now,Voyager, 1942)

                                      Passion for learning is good but I certainly don't agree with the title of this thread because it doesn't say anything about realistic expectations. The OP does seem to have realistic expectations so his story was fine but some people will interpret the title to mean one should attempt pieces that are light years beyond their present ability. My comment is not at all based on a person's age and I'm not talking about what are sometimes called stretch pieces or new musical endeavors like learning jazz improvisation. Stretch pieces are fine for any age as long as the amount of stretch is reasonable.

                                        pianoloverus Passion for learning is good but I certainly don't agree with the title of this thread because it doesn't say anything about realistic expectations.

                                        Going by the title would be the wrong way to go. There is a concept being developed in the story itself and that is what matters. What I see in the story is a point about manner of learning . The OP has self-knowledge, finding professionally, and now also in music, certain things create a lot of learning, and other things have the opposite effect. Applying the same thing to music, suddenly speed of learning, and interest, were greatly enhanced.

                                        This also juxtaposes the statement by the fellow who wrote that book who simply dashed off opinions. In those opinions, speed of learning was determined only by age. The older you are, the slower you learn, being the idea. Speed of learning, effectiveness of actions, are determined by other things, especially the HOW of the matter. The gist of the message in the opening post is an important one. It is not directly contained in the title, except as an opposition to the other broad statement. There should be no broad statements.

                                            • SStub

                                            • Post #27

                                            pianoloverus Passion for learning is good but I certainly don't agree with the title of this thread because it doesn't say anything about realistic expectations.

                                            Don't judge a book by its covers, as the saying goes. That the title of a thread isn't perfect is, in my opinion, irrelevant. Every poster would like to have the perfect title that captures exactly what they have in mind for the post, but mostly people don't. And mostly readers don't care that titles aren't perfect.

                                              keystring In those opinions, speed of learning was determined only by age. The older you are, the slower you learn, being the idea.

                                              To be fair to the author, he mentions what in his opinion are maximum theoretical limits, such as people starting between 13-19 being able to become concert pianists if they have genuine interest.