Learn whatever you want no matter how old you are!

rogerch

Hi Piano Friends! This thread is an offshoot of Kaydia's thread about The Fundamentals of Piano Practice, in particular this sentence:

"The process of nerve growth slows down with age."

My impression is when someone says that nerve growth slows down with age they are either trying to discourage me from continuing to learn as I age or making excuses for their own or someone else's struggles with learning.

I don't know what physically happens with nerve growth and honestly I don't really care. What matters is the subjective experience that each of us has with our own learning.

I'm 58 years old and I am still joyfully learning every day.

What follows is a retelling of my piano journey, with a focus on learning and aging.

I'm a piano player and a software engineer. I've played piano since I was 7 and I've worked as a software engineer my entire career. Early on it became apparent that I am much more talented at software than I am at piano.

I learn new software concepts and systems extremely quickly. When I was young I learned software very fast, and if anything I'm faster now than when I was young. One of the reasons I learn faster now is that I have more references. Each new concept or system has elements that are similar to things I already know, which means less work for me to learn each new concept or system.

The key to learning software for me is writing code. If I study software for purely intellectual purposes my mind does not fully engage and I don't learn effectively. This was true when I was young and it's true now. On the other hand, If I'm trying to get some code working, my brain goes into learning overdrive. I become extremely efficient and effective at learning, even at my relatively advanced age.

Up until 4.5 years ago most of my piano experience was learning pieces from sheet music. Even though I started as a child I was never fast at learning pieces from sheet music. I was attracted to pieces that were relatively difficult for me, and it took months to learn a piece to the point where I was even close to satisfied with my playing. I tended to focus on a single piece and ignore my other pieces. The ignored pieces degenerated and oftentimes the only piece I could play was the piece I was currently working on! This pattern applied when I was young and stayed the same as I aged.

During Covid I played more piano than I had in recent years, and worked on learning multiple pieces I had played before. Eventually I had about 10 pieces I could play reasonably well. To keep this up I had to work on those 10 pieces consistently.

While I was working on maintaining pieces I read about Keith Jarrett's Köln concert and listened to the album. This inspired me to rethink my approach to playing the piano. I decided to learn how to improvise. I started with some basic chord progressions and experimented with playing melodies on top. I worked through parts of Improvisation at the Piano. That book suggested learning every exercise in all the major and minor scales.

I played scales when I took piano lessons as a kid and as a young adult, but my heart wasn't in it. I just wanted to play my pieces. So while I went through the motions I did not deeply learn scales.

This time around I was motivated by my desire to improvise! It was as if I was trying to get some code to work and my brain went into learning overdrive! I wanted to be able to play chords and melodies in all the major and harmonic minor scales so I was intent and focused on learning those scales. I played a scale and then improvised in that scale every day for about three years. I learned scales much more deeply in my fifties than I ever learned them when I was young.

I still improvise every day and the payoff has been enormous. I can sit down at the piano and play for pleasure as long as I want without running out of pieces. Pushing myself to learn something new in my fifties feels really good to my brain!

But wait, there's more! When I was younger I did very little sight reading so of course I wan't very good at it. About 1.5 years ago I decided that in addition to improvising I wanted to get better at sight reading. Since then I sight read for 10 to 20 minutes every day. I have worked my way through a lot of the sheet music I have in the house as well as several large anthologies of various kinds of music I have ordered. I have made enormous progress! Once again the motivation to be good at something has driven me past any limitations in my aging brain and I'm way better at sight reading than I was when I was young.

You can probably tell I'm passionate about learning! I don't care what anyone says about reduced learning capacity in aging brains. I still have plenty of learning capacity and I can learn very effectively when I am sufficiently motivated. Please don't tell me that I'm still young and my learning capacity will decrease when I get to my 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. I'm going to do the best I can with what I've got!!!

Ignore the naysayers! Follow your passion to learn whatever you want no matter how old you are!!!

twocats

rogerch I love it! Your passion and motivation is inspiring 🙂

navindra

rogerch Wow, wow, wow! This is truly an inspiring post and it hits very close to home for me.

I'm further behind in the timeline you describe and so this is very illuminating. I've always had the thought at the back of my mind that I should learn improvisation and I've done little to move the bar on my sight reading skills... I think this is just the kick I needed!

Thank you for this!

BartK

rogerch
Thank you for this inspiring post!

It's true. You can learn anything you want with enough motivation and enjoy the process too.

Do you recommend this book Improvisation at the Piano? What approach does it take to teach improvisation?

Sgisela

rogerch that was a beautiful post, Roger. I think people on the whole are prone to fixating on their limitations, rather than their potential/possibilities, and this can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps this is one thing the kiddos are better at than we are — not getting hung up on what we think we can’t do.

I also believe we can always learn and grow and aspire to be better versions of our current selves, in any number of domains of our lives.

rogerch

navindra Hey Navindra, I hope you try out improvising and enjoy it as much I have. I’m looking forward to hearing you improvise some day!

rogerch

BartK Do you recommend this book Improvisation at the Piano? What approach does it take to teach improvisation?

The book was helpful to me when I was getting started and I do recommend it as a way to begin. The book consists of short chapters with explanations and exercises. It starts very basic but it does assume that you already know how to play classical music and gets somewhat advanced quickly.

I think the biggest benefits I got from the book were exercises in lots of keys that forced me to work on having what’s going on in one hand not distract from what’s going on in the other hand. That is still a work in progress for me but I think it got me going in a good direction. There were also helpful things to think about in terms of melodies and analyzing music.

I only got through about a third of the book before I ventured into my intense study of scales.

During one of the PW recitals an expert improviser reached out to me privately and gave me some tips that launched me in a new direction: improvising in both hands. That moved me from playing melodies on top of chord progressions to making it all up in both hands at the same time. Again it’s still a work in progress and I think it always will be no matter where inspiration comes from in the future. It’s all about the journey! 😀

Kaydia

@rogerch I loved reading about your piano journey. My own journey has barely started, but so far I can say it sure feels like my brain is getting a good workout during my piano sessions, so hopefully that'll help extend my learning capability.

(I edited my OP on the other thread to add a link to this thread.)

rogerch

Kaydia I’m glad you started your piano journey! May it give you great joy and pleasure with lots of fun learning along the way! Also, when you’re ready to share I’m looking forward to hearing your playing. It’s always fun to see and hear other people’s piano journeys at all levels!

rogerch

Sgisela I also believe we can always learn and grow and aspire to be better versions of our current selves, in any number of domains of our lives.

Yes! Thanks Sgisela!

Sophia

So true! Never understood the angst and despair I have seen on occasion over (perceived) lack of progress. Embrace the challenge, enjoy the process, share the passion! My dad started guitar lessons when he was in his mid 70s despite knowing he had a debilitating terminal illness. Never once did he consider his efforts futile or a waste of his time, nor did his teacher.

This is us when I visited my parents - he was 75 at the time. He had never touched a guitar in his life before!

rogerch

Sophia Thanks for sharing the video with your dad. That’s really nice that he learned to play late in life and that you got to play along with him.

Also, Sophia… you have mad guitar skills! Wow!

Nightowl

Sophia What a charming video - those memories of playing together must be very special to you. Looking at the two of you, totally absorbed in the moment and playing in synch, it's clear that the apple did not fall far from the tree. 🙂 On a side note, your father had great hair for his age!

I agree with Gooseberry - it's not true that "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" - but the ability to learn can be impaired by certain health problems that happen as age takes its toll.

I'm a firm advocate for the notion of being a lifelong learner. Learning new things helps to stave off boredom, makes people more rounded and gives us more to talk about. 😁

iternabe

rogerch Great post, and truly inspiring story!

I think it’s possible to both accept we may learn slower as we age and believe nothing is impossible until we give it a try and give it time. Also, when I was younger, I always wanted to learn new things in a hurry. Paradoxically, as I get older, I am more comfortable not rush the learning but let steady progress happen over longer term.

rogerch

iternabe rogerch Great post, and truly inspiring story!

I think it’s possible to both accept we may learn slower as we age and believe nothing is impossible until we give it a try and give it time. Also, when I was younger, I always wanted to learn new things in a hurry. Paradoxically, as I get older, I am more comfortable not rush the learning but let steady progress happen over longer term.

Thanks iternabe! Taking time to learn instead of rushing sounds more effective and more enjoyable!

Regarding learning slower as we age: I choose to disregard any such notion. I don't see how worrying about learning slower helps me. Instead, I focus on the present and what I'm learning today. Fast, slow, it doesn't matter. I'm learning and improving and loving it!

ranjit

rogerch This is an inspiring post!

rogerch "The process of nerve growth slows down with age."

Sometimes, knowledge can be a dangerous thing based on how it's interpreted. This is one of those cases. "Having talent" is also one of those instances where it can be helpful not to think too much about it either way. (That said, I don't think it's wrong to discuss it if the topic arises.)

Gooseberry

ranjit Sometimes, knowledge can be a dangerous thing based on how it's interpreted.

Yes, especially if the interpretation is only fragmentary or goes the easy way of confirming an already rooted belief. Look at the proverb “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks”. It’s neither true nor justified, but can keep people trapped in their conviction that at a certain age it is impossible to learn or change anything.

HeartKeys

I echo what many stated here, that this thread is inspiring.

As someone who is more "innately" an improviser and cannot read music, I have focused this year on technique (so I don't sound like I'm smashing the keys). I also quested to be more proficient on all 12 keys, instead of just "jamming." I also for the first time decided to take playing piano seriously.

So whether we're sight readers, or improvisers or both, there is limitless amount of things to learn, which at first can seem daunting, but is actually exciting since you'll never be bored.

At the meta level, I also look at the "am I too old to do X," I think of it in very organic simplistic way: I either apply my brain towards something, or I'm just inert. The latter is never conducive, but is often a limiting thought we all have at times. The analysis paralysis can lead to inaction as we then feel discouraged, etc.

So to reiterate, in my own head: "I'm either going to get better, or I'm going to regress or be stagnant."

Sophia

HeartKeys As someone who is more "innately" an improviser and cannot read music,

That's incredible! Roger might have to make place for you as my improv inspiration 😃 Noooooooo joking, but seriously the few things I have seen you play are incredible. Looking forward to your next recital piece 🙂

thepianoplayer416

At my age playing music is less about making progress or competing with anybody. In the beginning it was for stress relief from having a nervous breakdown. Watching older people in the family suffer from dementia, music has become daily brain exercise like taking daily vitamins. You get engaged in your music and progress is part of the process of learning.

A lot of older people think they need to start playing at a young age. They need to complete conservatory levels. I get into playing for the personal enjoyment. Older adults don't usually pursue a career as a professional so we tend to get into difficult pieces more gradually.

Coming from a non-music family, piano didn't come naturally when I was young. At my age I think about how much I can get out of piano with the years I have left. I don't think about the "lost years" and the progress I would have made if I started piano at 5. It's a great inspiration to see older adults get into piano.

Gooseberry

rogerch
Thank you for your beautiful, warm and inspiring post!

All of us who started, restarted or continue, learning to play the piano as adults are a living proof that the old conviction that your ability to learn decreases with age is worth nothing. We just don’t let it happen.

I started to learn almost four years ago, when I was 59. I began by learning to read the notes, just using a paper keyboard, a month or two before the piano arrived. It was like learning a completely new language, and I love learning languages, so it was great. Since then, I have been sitting at the piano and learning something new almost every day (and there is always something new to learn, yay!😃). I’m in no hurry, I don’t like racing or competing in anything, I can learn at my own pace – at a pace that gives me time to revel in the process, and be amazed. I could regret that I didn’t start as a child or later as a young independent adult, but what would be the point? And why should I, if every minute I spend now learning to play brings me so much happiness?

Sophia

Gooseberry I could regret that I didn’t start as a child or later as a young independent adult, but what would be the point?

Yes, this! So much so! I too could spend my time wringing my hands that I didn't show enough interest as a child, forfeited all opportunity etc, but why would I? I'm learning now and having a great time with it. That's all that counts really!