Do you read from the bottom up, the top down?

ShiroKuro · 2024-12-07T12:58:23+00:00

In the thread about wrong notes, I mentioned that I had read advice to read from the bottom up when sightreading, but I couldn’t remember where I’d read that...

pseudonym58

I used to get called occasionally to sub for organists at local churches. FWIW, if I have to read four-part hymns (on a grand staff), I read the soprano and alto lines together with the bass line. Generally, it's the tenor part that gets short changed, probably because I'm right-handed.

kanadajin

ShiroKuro
Interesting point … I am pretty sure I read both hands simultaneously and think of it as a whole entity. Because I read both bass and treble clefs with equal ease, and I agree with you that we re not reading single points and instead are seeing chunks of the page at the same time (if only sometimes through peripheral vision), if I really think about it I probably start by focusing on the one hand that I would perceive to present the most challenges or technical difficulties at a particular point in the the score. Sometimes this would be the right hand and other times the left.

Now you have me curious, I’ll try to be a little more conscious next time I read and see if I can make out what I am looking at first (if any). 🙂

MRC

ShiroKuro I wish I could do an eye tracking study.

So do I. It's very hard to sight-read as usual while simultaneously observing myself. I just gave it a try: it's clear that I don't read bottom-up, top-down, or even (as I was inclined to think) top and bottom inwards. I scan over several measures, instinctively looking for things that are important, which may be at the top, at the bottom, or in the middle. Before I've played a phrase, I already have a good idea of how it should sound.

It's all about understanding the music before you've played it. it's just like reading a story aloud. If you don't understand what you are reading before you speak it, all you can do is pronounce the words. You won't be able to speak the phrase with the correct rhythm or emphasis, you won't convey its meaning.

pseudonym58

MRC It's all about understanding the music before you've played it. it's just like reading a story aloud. If you don't understand what you are reading before you speak it, all you can do is pronounce the words. You won't be able to speak the phrase with the correct rhythm or emphasis, you won't convey its meaning.

That's it, precisely.

ShiroKuro

MRC I scan over several measures

Is this with music you’re already working on? As opposed to a prima vista score?

I am certain I’m doing something different with music I’ve been working on, and I think I look at — and see — more of the score at once when it’s music I’ve been working on for a bit. And I think I can look ahead much more successfully.

With prima vista sightreading, I think I’m not reading as far ahead, for one thing, and for another, I think I focus on more details, maybe more than I need to, because I don’t yet know what I can ignore…

MRC

ShiroKuro Is this with music you’re already working on? As opposed to a prima vista score?

Prima vista. I observed what I was doing while sight-reading some pieces I had never played before.

MRC

ShiroKuro I am certain I’m doing something different with music I’ve been working on, and I think I look at — and see — more of the score at once when it’s music I’ve been working on for a bit. And I think I can look ahead much more successfully.

With prima vista sightreading, I think I’m not reading as far ahead, for one thing, and for another, I think I focus on more details, maybe more than I need to, because I don’t yet know what I can ignore…

For me it's the other way round!

In prima vista playing, I'm scanning ahead to pick out the essentials, and I may ignore all sorts of details. That's how I can make sense of a piece first time through. It's how I've been able to accompany countless opera rehearsals where I hadn't seen the score beforehand.

It's when I start working on a piece that I get down to details. When playing through a piece I'm working on, I won't be scanning so far ahead: I already know how it goes. In this situation I will be more carefully looking at the place in the score where I'm playing, making sure that I'm getting the details right.

ShiroKuro

@MRC when I posted yesterday, I already sort of knew that I’m probably paying attention to too much when sightreading. I’ve never really been very good at selectively ignoring (not playing) certain notes while doing prima vista sightreading.

But reading your comments makes me think that even more. When I practice tonight, I’ll have to get out some sightreading material and see what I can discover about this… I’ve always had as a goal (in sightreading) looking forward in the music, and obviously I must be doing that to some extent because my sightreading is not bad, far from it. But I think if I can improve on that, and improve on what we might think of as “selective attention,” then maybe my sightreading can get even better….

And to bring it back to the topic I originally started this thread about: I would guess that reading ahead in the score is much more important than the question of whether one reads from the bottom up or the top down.

Bellyman

It's an interesting question. I don't do a lot of reading. But when I do have to, I find that I typically am focused upon the melody first, which tends to move around the most, and then probably the bottom note, which often gives the bass of the chord supporting the melody. (I probably didn't say that well.) If I can get the melody and I can get what the bass of the chord might be, the other notes give a hint at what fills in the middle.

I suspect it's gonna vary based upon what is being played. Probably my best sight reading would be something like a hymn, which is as described. Something like a lead sheet would give you the chord in letter form and have a melody line, it doesn't get much more simple than that. The printed out music for a Chopin etude... maybe not quite so easy.

kanadajin

Well I did some sight reading this morning and tried as best I could to be conscious of what I am looking at on the score. I can now emphatically state that, at least in my case, I am definitely not reading from the bottom up or top down or any regular pattern. I seem to be scanning a little all over as explained by MRC above. This is done simultaneously over both the treble and bass clefs as if they were a single one. I do think that in the heat of the moment, I am doing my best to establish reference (or support) points for hand/finger placement (or anchoring on the keyboard) in keeping with what lies ahead (next bars) while trying to maintain the spirit of the piece.

It is a bit of a juggling act I suppose. Or maybe I am a strange pianist 🙃

RFox

The point of reading from the bottom up is largely for sight-reading as a collaborative pianist or, perhaps, ballet class.

The essence of music is the bass and everything builds on that so get that down first and keep the tempo and the rhythm going. The right hand can be reduced to simple chords or melody and generally isn't as important, in that work, as bass.

If you're reading on your own to learn or discover new music or just enjoying reading, it matters not; just keep all the buffers filled before committing to playing.

I typically read from the bottom up as I sometimes have to keep the foundation of the music going for others and when the reading gets tricky the left hand may be all I get time for.

Ithaca

RFox The essence of music is the bass and everything builds on that so get that down first and keep the tempo and the rhythm going.

I was going to write that I read from the bottom up only for jazz/blues pieces, because often you can tell an awful lot about a piece just from the bass. Whereas for classical, it’s usually the melody that’s more critical.

Bellyman

The time framework is kinda important. It's hard to describe exactly.

On a simple tune, like Silent night as an example, had I never seen it before, probably the first things are key and time signature. For example, lets say it's in the key of C and 3/4 time. That's easy enough but gives a clue as to what notes of the scale will likely come into play and IF the song starts out with a 1 chord, the bass note is going to be C. It does. And that C in the bass stays put for 4 measures so we can read something else. Melody comes next on my radar. What's the tune? It's simple enough to pick that out. OK, so if we have that and still have a tiny bit of brain power left, what other notes are there to fill in the harmonies?

That's a bit of where my brain goes.