Hi All.

I've known for a while now about an SK3 for sale that has both their player system AND the silent system in it. They're both factory installed. I passed over it for 3 reasons: I wanted to keep things simple, not add all kinds of unnecessary tech. I already have a very nice digital piano (P525) so I don't need the silent system and I want to play, not watch the piano to play itself. That was all one reason so far. The second is that I'm not a huge fan of perpetual, recurring costs and the way Kawai does their player system, after a trial period, the fees are indefinite, at least the way it was explained to me. The third reason is what I'm reading about the changes needed to regulation to make these systems (namely the silent system) work properly. I don't have a lot of experience with this or similar systems.

This was enough to keep me looking at other pianos but the seller is making this into a deal I'm having trouble refusing as of late! The third reason above was the main objection for me but thinking about that more, it might not matter because at my skill level, I doubt I'd even be able to tell the difference. I couldn't feel anything unusual when I played it but it takes me a while to really get to know a piano and 1/2 hour isn't enough. It would take a week or two even if I were able to notice but I'm just not that picky when it comes to actions. I'm far pickier when it comes to how it sounds and I have no issues with that!

So since I tend to overthink things, I'm asking for some opinions on that grade of piano having all of that "stuff" on it and if it's a good, bad or indifferent thing. If I were ordering one, I would not order either of those options. I don't want to get into any details on pricing or the piano's age but let's leave it at what I said above about it being a really good deal on a really young piano. The deal is a good one even if it didn't have those options so they're beyond free in this case. I'm wondering if I'm looking in the horse's mouth too much or if I'm right to be leery? Someone ordered it that way then didn't want it afterward so there's at least one person out there who didn't like the teeth on that horse! What say you?

    some thoughts or questions I'd have are...

    is this a private seller, or at a dealer?

    if at a dealer, it's fair to say, that even if it's a "deal," they're making a profit out of it.

    As far as player/ silent system, you ultimately are paying a premium that you don't have a premium interest for. It kind of reminds me when my wife was interested in a Bosendorfer 200. She loved the tone of one, that had a butterfly/ dragonfly artwork. Yet she cared almost 0% about the artwork itself, and only cared for the piano. So we got a normal ebony finish piano. We couldn't justifying paying a huge markup for something we didn't care for.

    Also, consider how difficult a resell could be. for example, imagine you buy it. 5 years later you want to sell it. a potential buyer, such as myself (as I love Shigeru's tone), sees it listed for sale. When I learn that it has the player/ silent system, I would consider it a con, as I would-- even if errantly-- think that your selling price to me is factoring that same system, and I'd rechannel my focus towards the "regular" Shigeru grands. And 10 years later, someone may consider that system completely outdated, and associated your Shigeru with "it's a really old piano, and the system is so antiquated."

    I have a similar opinion when I saw a Steinway Model B with the (in my opinion) absurdly overpriced Spirio system. And if I were seeking a Yamaha CFX, or Yamaha S7X for example, I would steer away from any that have a Disklavier/ Enspire system.

    At the end of the day, there's a reason this piano you're referencing is at the price point it is. The deal or "deal" is priced according to the market demand for it. Otherwise it likely would've been snatched up long ago 🙂

    Tuner Hey Tuner,

    I'm a bit confused here. You found an SK3 that has a player and a silent system? Well, Kawai has a silent system that isn't available on the SK series. And they don't make a player system (in the traditional sense). It is actually possible to special-order an SK with the silent or soundboard-amplified Aures systems pre-installed, but Kawai themselves don't recommend it.

    And as Kawai doesn't have a player system available, there is isn't any perpetual recurring cost, there isn't a trial period, and there aren't any fees.

    Is it possible that the SK3 you're looking at has a 3rd party aftermarket player system installed, like a PianoDisc?

        Gombessa

        I was thinking the same thing about it being aftermarket since I couldn't find any of those listed as options on Kawai's site but I know they ordered it that way through the store. The fees are for access to their full, unlimited and growing library of songs. I can't remember the name of the system but might if I hear it. It's not PianoDisc. I believe a set number is permanently included and also purchased songs do not require any subscription and would not have any fees.

        I didn't know Kawai did not recommend those things. That kind of fits with the way I feel about them. It's one thing to do that to a GL series or maybe a GX but yeah, I'm not keen on it being on an SK, hence my hesitation and asking for more opinions.

            Tuner The fees are for access to their full, unlimited and growing library of songs. I can't remember the name of the system but might if I hear it. It's not PianoDisc.

            QRS PNOmation maybe?

            They have a a huge library and a subscription service to access:
            https://shop.qrsmusic.com/music/accessplans

                Gombessa

                That could be it? I remember having to download an app to my iPad to control it. The silent system had a lever but it's been a while since I've seen it and don't remember everything.

                    Tuner I didn't know Kawai did not recommend those things. That kind of fits with the way I feel about them. It's one thing to do that to a GL series or maybe a GX but yeah, I'm not keen on it being on an SK, hence my hesitation and asking for more opinions.

                    I don't want to say Kawai doesn't recommend it outright. But as you already mentioned, there are some regulation compromises that are needed to accommodate the hammer stop rail. When I was shopping for a piano a few years ago, my top priority was a factory silent system, and after talking to Kawai, they could build in an ATX4 or Aures into any special-ordered SK. My dealer was happy to order it if I wanted, but they said it's not something they'd normally recommend on a performance instrument like an SK.

                      Tuner The silent system had a lever

                      Yep, I think outside of Yamaha, every silent system moves the stop rail with a manual cable-lever mounted under the keyboard (or possibly a modified middle pedal). Even Kawai's factory-installed ATX system is lever-actuated.

                        Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm going to go back to and stick with my initial gut feeling which is to stay away from this one. It seems that someone sullied a masterpiece. I initially thought this came from the factory as it sits and assumed it was covered by the same 10 year warranty. Now I'm wondering if there's any warranty left since those systems take over the host like the creature that flew out of the egg in the first Alien movie! It would be SO easy for nearly any problem to be blamed on the player system or even the silent system.

                          Tuner It seems that someone sullied a masterpiece.

                          I'm sure there are ways to install a player system that is respectful to the design and build of a fine piano.

                          But do take a look at the process of installing such a system. We've only really talked about silents and action regulation in this thread. But a player system is an entirely different animal. The entire piano has to be set on its side and the bottom of the keybed sawed out along its width to install a solenoid motor rail. Much of the trapwork for the pedals has to be removed and tossed, and a new custom-adjusted setup installed that will change the travel and feel and function of the pedals. This also makes it hard to remove the player system years later, if the owner doesn't keep the original trapwork parts.

                          I think it's probably wise to avoid it, if you are not looking for a silent system in the first place.