Article about the yips - "even monkeys choke"

ShiroKuro

If you ever "choke" when trying to perform, get the yips, or what I call the shakes, you might take some comfort in knowing that even our primate siblings experience this problem!

Link to WaPo article:
https://wapo.st/3YGpp70

keystring

I had to give them my (junk) e-mail to be able to read the article since I'm not subscribed and others here may not be. A summary is that a scientific trial was done with monkeys, where monkeys were taught to use a cursor to targets, and were given various degrees of rewards including "high stakes" rewards. In some kind of stress situation (which I didn't get) the monkeys tended to choke in the sense that initially they were overly cautious and therefore "overshot" the target before correcting. That's the gist of the first part.

The 2nd part of the article gives some suggestions: they seemed to be ideas of the author, and not related to the study per se. The ideas the writer put forth was to:

have a toolbox of techniques
include practising in a stress situation/environment since the calm of your regular practice place won't be there
reframe past failures by seeing why it went wrong, and finding solutions for the next time
"power worrying" (that one was new to me and a tad intriguing) - it seems, writing down everything you worry about (so as to get it out of your head?)

Animisha

Yes, thank you for the summary keystring!

keystring "power worrying" (that one was new to me and a tad intriguing) - it seems, writing down everything you worry about (so as to get it out of your head?)

I think the point of the power worrying is that you dedicate a specific moment to the worrying and afterwards, forbid yourself to keep on worrying.

TC3

keystring My thanks as well for the summary. I have a short attention span for videos. 🙂

I like the term "power worrying." I've found writing things down to be incredibly helpful. When I'm anxious about things, they have a tendency to spin around in my head, and somehow putting them on paper (or a text file) allows me to set it aside for a while.

ShiroKuro

Thanks for the summary @keystring

Another point he makes in the article, which IMO should have been emphasized more, is that humans may have better ability than monkeys to overcome or prevent the yips. It might seem like an obvious point, and that’s probably why he didn’t focus in on it.but to me, that should be encouraging, because it says that it’s a natural reaction (even primates do it!) but we can train ourselves out of it.

Sophia

TC3 When I'm anxious about things, they have a tendency to spin around in my head, and somehow putting them on paper (or a text file) allows me to set it aside for a while.

That is so very true!!! I found that too the hard way. Instead of tossing and turning till 3am, I now jot down what's bothering me and boom, my head made room for sleep 😁

pseudonym58

I have read that two of the techniques that are useful in counteracting this kind of autonomous reaction are distraction (by way of concentration on a particular element or group of elements involved in the task), and breathing. To which I can add from personal experience, deliberately relaxing my shoulders, seeing if I can allow them to drop a little lower, as my natural tendency is to tighten and raise my shoulders when I'm apprehensive. If this is a chronic problem, a low dose of a beta-blocker can sometimes help, although you want to make sure to use the minimum necessary.

ShiroKuro

pseudonym58 distraction (by way of concentration on a particular element or group of elements involved in the task)

Re distraction, it’s funny that you mention that because one thing I have done to counter nerves is to zero in on something very specific. For example, counting out (in my head) part of a passage while playing. What I mean is, once I have a piece in my fingers (I’m no longer in the learning stage) I’m not counting, but forcing myself to count in my head has always helped.

I also will force myself to read the score — again, this is when performing or trying to record a piece, so I’m long pas the learning stage, and I probably have the music memorized. But I have the score out, and I don’t just “gaze” at it, but I will make sure I’m actively reading it, following along so I keep my place on the score.

I just never thought of these two things as a way to distract myself from the shakes. It certainly does help with concentrating on the music, but I think that distraction might actually be the real benefit… maybe I can use these techniques more purposefully…

JB_PT

Interesting. I am a professional worrier...."worry early and often" seems to be my motto. I don't think I've ever come across this advice to try writing everything down, but I can see how it might be helpful. I will try to remember to give this a shot!

keystring

I think I've heard the "write it down" thing recently in some vlogs somewhere. I vaguely recall that in those contexts, some of the things you write down, turn out to be silly if you go to the bottom of the thought. Other times, just the fact of writing it down might dissipate much of the anxiety for some reason.

I just remembered a very silly thing; don't know how pertinent it is. I went camping alone as a female with my two children who were very young (3 + 5, or 4 + 6). At night I heard a man snore. I conjured up the most ridiculous scenario. The man had started to invade our tent, but had suddenly fallen asleep right at the doorway and now was snoring inches away. 😃 Only when fully awake and at daylight did the absurdity occur to me. There was indeed someone snoring --- in a tent quite some distance away. (In fact, some women are loud snorers too.) Sound travels in a quiet campground away from the noise of city traffic.

JB_PT

keystring I think I've heard the "write it down" thing recently in some vlogs somewhere. I vaguely recall that in those contexts, some of the things you write down, turn out to be silly if you go to the bottom of the thought. Other times, just the fact of writing it down might dissipate much of the anxiety for some reason.

This makes sense to me. Occasionally when I'm having an issue with someone and I'm considering trying to have a conversation about it, I write out a draft email. Often by the time I'm done with that, the need to "talk it out" has passed because just the process of ordering my thoughts helps me sort out what the true issue is....and it usually is not the other person. 😏 Or maybe I just come to the conclusion that it's not worth pursuing. Either way I do feel better.

Pallas I've tried redirecting my attention to my breath, but this made both my teachers nervous, and each stepped in to give me worried-sounding advice, thinking my moment of quiet focus WAS the yips instead of an anti-yipping strategy.

How strange....and frustrating!

ShiroKuro

Pallas I learned that teachers get the yips too

Oh yeah. Anyone can get the yips. I think what matters is 1) being open about it (at least with oneself, and 2) not letting fear of the yips take over. That last part is easier said than done!

pseudonym58

Gemini: "Simone Biles (athlete) has publicly discussed experiencing 'the twisties'. This is a mental block experienced by gymnasts where they lose their sense of spatial awareness mid-air."
I suggest that this is not too different from the "yips".
@ShiroKuro

ShiroKuro

Oh yeah, I read about her experience, and I believe the twisties and the yips, and what I call the shakes, are all the same.

The difference is, of course, for a gymnast, getting the twisties could kill you. For a baseball player or pianist, it's not fatal (although it could be a career killer for a professional).

pseudonym58

Speaking as a former professional, I am so glad that I don't have to perform music to earn a living anymore. As a principal cellist in an opera orchestra, I would sometimes be called upon to play awkward difficult solos in the highest range of the instrument, often very exposed. It wasn't quite a situation of "You're only as good as your last performance", but your colleagues and the audience have a certain expectation of you, and too frequent slip-ups felt soul-crushing. Fortunately, I got better as I went along. But ultimately, I really decided the life was not for me, at least not long-term. Fortunately, now, I can play mostly for a recording device, use several takes, and splice it up (within reason) to get the best results. I used to feel this was "cheating", but in reality, virtually no professional recordings today are made without some sort of post-production modifications, tricks that go way beyond simple splicing. The live piano or cello performances that I do on my own or with my wife are low key, and as non-professionals (at this point), our egos are not bound up in it the way they were when we were younger.
@ShiroKuro

ShiroKuro

I think the pressures on professional musicians must be so intense, and moreso than in previous generations.

OTOH, playing casually might still make people nervous (it makes me nervous) but as you say, low-key is good and we can still enjoy making music for and with others!