Pianos encountered in a recent trip to Vienna

cheeeeee · 2024-08-08T17:39:07+00:00

My family and I recently made a three-day visit to Vienna. I had initially planned to visit the Bösendorfer factory, but couldn’t make it because there were...

HeartKeys

I can see both sides of this.

For a dealer, and would-be buyer of that piano, it can feel like people "free loading" an experience to play a very high quality piano, and if that piano's mileage adds up, it definitely feels "pre-owned" at that point.

For an enthusiast however, it could be an opportunity of a lifetime. It's not everyday you get to play, for example, an Hamburg Model D, particularly if you're from a place like the US. So it could feel like someone- a Steinway sales person for example- blocking them from an amazing experience 🙂

HeartKeys

cheeeeee I thought the piano sounded a bit too bright for my liking.

I'm going to assume it's because it's played all the time, as a recital piano. I've played recital pianos of numerous makes (Steinway Model D, Bluthner Model One, Bechstein D282, , Steingraeber E-272, Fazioli F308, Shigeru Kawai, Yamaha CFX), and they all sounded extremely bright.

Nightowl

What an interesting thread, it sounds like Vienna is to pianists what Graceland is to Elvis fans! 🙂
clavierhaus I can see things from that viewpoint - the store owners don't want hordes of tourists dropping by and trying out the pianos, like kids trying out slides in a local park. They are running commercial businesses, not providing a public amenity. No doubt there are ways of discerning potential buyers/renters, and these people would probably get the red carpet treatment and may be given appointments out of hours to try out pianos.

clavierhaus

clavierhaus Edit: Two paragraphs removed by @Mods

Thanks. I won't bother you with any further contributions to this forum. It's worse than PW if that's the best you can do in terms of interacting with people, i.e. no interaction, no guidelines, no nothing.

Just hiding behind the wall of anonymous "moderators" whose agenda isn't known to anyone, but they run the show. Well, good for you. One more member that won't bother you in the future. Great way to build a community.

Bye.

navindra

clavierhaus I've been overloaded and didn't get to sending you a message yet. I'll get right on it.

Edit: Done.

navindra

cheeeeee What an incredibly amazing experience! The pictures you shared make me feel like I'm almost right there.

It's good to see a part of the world where there's a vibrant piano community, so much so they aren't wanting for customers. The Steinway store experience parallels a similar one that I've had locally. It didn't leave a good impression on me as a potential customer.

I really really want to go check out Vienna now, but that's very unlikely to happen, so thanks so much for sharing this!

cheeeeee

Thank you all for reading this thread. We enjoyed every minute of our fun music experiences in Vienna, and we were grateful to all the people who we had the opportunity to meet during the process. I’m sharing the stories as how we experienced the events and people: It’s meant to be fun, not meaning to complain at all! 😊😊。More to come!

cheeeeee

Coming out of the Steinway house, we headed directly towards the Bösendorfer Salon which is less than 10 minutes walk away. Following the GPS, we arrived at the address. Looking up, we were utterly impressed. It’s right at the Musikverein building, the home of the Vienna Philharmonic orchestra! We heard later that Bösendorfer Salon has been in this building for over 100 years.

cheeeeee

We heard music playing before getting through the door. A guy was playing on one of the pianos, surrounded by a small crowd of people, all smiling and with great interest. It was an unfamiliar piece but catchy. We joined the crowd and listened to him play. When he was done, he moved to another piano to play a tune. The crowd followed him and chatted about what they liked about each piano. The music and the people created an interesting ambience that was very different from the Steinway house. If one compares the Steinway house to a Mercedes dealership, Bösendorfer Salon felt more like a Toyota (or maybe Lexus) shop. 😂

I chatted with them afterwards. It turned out that one of the people in the crowd was the salon manager. The pianist and two others were professional musicians from Brazil. They met the salon manager at their concert the night before, who then invited them to visit the salon. After the piano testing, they hung out in the shop for a little while when the salon manager talked to them about the history of the salon and about Bösendorfer pianos. We eavesdropped and learned some fun facts. They then headed upstairs to see the concert hall. We were not able to follow them, unfortunately 🙂.

navindra

cheeeeee If one compares the Steinway house to a Mercedes dealership, Bösendorfer Salon felt more like a Toyota (or maybe Lexus) shop.

Heh... I haven't shopped for a car in a while, what does that mean?

I wanted an Apple Store experience when I went to Steinway, but instead, I had to make an appointment only to get a used car salesman treatment. On the other hand, I absolutely loved the Bösendorfer dealer... it was a great experience and I actually ended up buying my piano there, even if it wasn't a Bösendorfer!

cheeeeee Now that's a candy store!

cheeeeee

This was actually the first time that me and my family saw Bösendorfer pianos in real life! With the crowd gone, we were kids back to the candy store again. There were different models of a variety of sizes, and even an antique upright tucked in the corner that seemed to have some historical significance.

cheeeeee

I could see that my son was itching to get his hands on the pianos. I sympathized with him. A sales person was nearby. So I asked him if it’s OK for us to try the pianos. He said go for it! What a jackpot for us! We tried a couple of the pianos in the main showroom and one in the back. Then my son played his new go to piece - Rachmaninoff g-minor prelude - on the concert grand. At the end, he concluded that Bösendorfer was superior to Steinway 😄.

We both liked this special edition the best. The action was smooth and buttery (right word?). We were told that the inside was gold plated. It was priced at a quarter million euros!

Their in-house concert grand. The room was messy at that moment. A piano was sold and the movers were there to pick it up. The movers waited for my son to finish his playing before picking up the rest of the parts.

On the way out, we were in a state of euphoria, feeling like the luckiest people on earth. 😄

Gombessa

cheeeeee We both liked this special edition the best. The action was smooth and buttery (right word?). We were told that the inside was gold plated. It was priced at a quarter million euros!

Amazing, thanks for sharing your experience!

That special edition is the Secession, one of my favorites in the Collector's Editions, a very understated design.
https://www.boesendorfer.com/en/pianos/collectors-item/secession

There's a great video of the production here:

and the full performance by Dora Deliyska here:

I'm so jealous 🙂

cheeeeee

navindra cheeeeee If one compares the Steinway house to a Mercedes dealership, Bösendorfer Salon felt more like a Toyota (or maybe Lexus) shop.

Heh... I haven't shopped for a car in a while, what does that mean?

In one place, you feel you are under a watchful eye and you are afraid of touching anything or breaking anything. In another place, you are handed the key to go for it. 😂

Seeker

cheeeeee I've really enjoyed reading about your experiences in Vienna. The love you have for your son, and the love the two of you have for pianos are beautiful to me. As to the specifics of management attitudes at Bosendorfer vs Steinway, I don't know enough to be sure, but my gut says this is not the same everywhere. I wonder, e.g., if visiting Steinway in Hamburg would be the same. Last, for now, is your comment about the Hamburg D being brighter than NY: again, I wouldn't generalize. I've played Hamburg D's that were not bright and were very nice. I suspect the that it was a matter of prep and taste. How did the action feel to your son vs the pianos at his school? Thanks again for your reminisce.

cheeeeee

Seeker I've really enjoyed reading about your experiences in Vienna. The love you have for your son, and the love the two of you have for pianos are beautiful to me. As to the specifics of management attitudes at Bosendorfer vs Steinway, I don't know enough to be sure, but my gut says this is not the same everywhere. I wonder, e.g., if visiting Steinway in Hamburg would be the same. Last, for now, is your comment about the Hamburg D being brighter than NY: again, I wouldn't generalize. I've played Hamburg D's that were not bright and were very nice. I suspect the that it was a matter of prep and taste. How did the action feel to your son vs the pianos at his school? Thanks again for your reminisce.

So glad to hear that you enjoyed reading my stories! I agree completely that our different experiences at the Steinway Hall vs the Bösendorfer Salon in Vienna do not necessarily reflect different brand cultures. Back in the States, the Steinway dealerships that we visited - one within 1 hour drive and the other 4 hour drive - were both pretty down to earth, where we were left alone to play whatever we wanted. Between the two concert grands that my son played, the Steinway sounded brighter, but there is no doubt to me that they were both beautiful instruments, just different! I’ll write about the concerts we later went back to attend when I get a chance. My son’s comments on the pianos were very much holistic, it’s great, that’s ok, I like this one the best, etc 😂 It’s hard to get anything specific out of him. The ones I tried at Bösendorfer all had amazingly smooth and responsive actions.

Pallas

Visiting Steinway in Boston is very much as Navindra described. Used car salesman, hard sell. I couldn't get out of there fast enough, and they emailed me for months. In another shop, they reluctantly allowed me to touch the pianos only if promised I was a serious buyer. In the 3rd shop, they tossed me the keys and let me play anything. I played the Yamaha CFX concert grand, a vintage Steinway with real ivory keys, and a conservatory Bosendorfer, among others. I bought my acoustic piano from the 3rd store, after playing any piano I wanted for as long as I wanted, and if I ever want a grand piano I'll probably shop them again.

HeartKeys

Pallas Visiting Steinway in Boston is very much as Navindra described. Used car salesman, hard sell.

yep, +1 here as well. in my local Steinway dealer, I went inside. Played a few new Steinways. When that asked me what I thought, I stated I didn't like the tone of those specific ones. His response, "oh! but we can change the tone!" (verbatim). At that point I walked out of the store.

Meanwhile, I went to a Yamaha/Bosendorfer dealer. Played all their pianos for about 3 days straight, with no interruption. Wasn't even looking for a large piano. Ended up getting their Bosendorfer 280VC, which was their nicest one. Received no pressure. Made a decision seamlessly, thanks to their "customers aren't exactly stupid" approach.

cheeeeee

Pallas In the 3rd shop, they tossed me the keys and let me play anything. I played the Yamaha CFX concert grand, a vintage Steinway with real ivory keys, and a conservatory Bosendorfer, among others. I bought my acoustic piano from the 3rd store,

This is the winning business model! We have been lucky with our “local” Steinway stores. One store even gave us a free piano floor template.

twocats

HeartKeys in my local Steinway dealer, I went inside. Played a few new Steinways. When that asked me what I thought, I stated I didn't like the tone of those specific ones. His response, "oh! but we can change the tone!" (verbatim).

The local Steinway dealer is run by the former manager of the Bösendorfer dealer. He decided to tell me all about how Bösendorfers are not suited for concert halls after learning that I have one, plus lots of other nonsense. I doubt he was saying all that stuff at his old job!

All of the new Steinways in the showroom sounded completely unvoiced and muffled and he said they could be voiced to suit your taste after you bought. The store is in a wealthier area of town and I wonder how many people buy a Steinway for their kid just for the prestige.

cheeeeee

Gombessa Thank you for sharing the information about this special edition piano! It’s interesting to know the origins of the design ideas. It’s such an elegant piano, and plays beautifully.

Gombessa

twocats The local Steinway dealer is run by the former manager of the Bösendorfer dealer.

As an interesting aside, I've been to three separate piano dealers locally where the person talking to me said they used to be the #1 sales rep for Bosendorfer in the US, and they all had pictures/plaques to show to prove it. As part of their pitch they all told me why they moved on from selling Bosendorfer to X/Y/Z brand, and how they felt that Bosendorfer just couldn't compete because of A/B/C.

No hate, nothing against them or even criticism--learly it didn't really matter to me or affect my purchase decision-- it was just odd and memorable to me how this could be such a common theme. Is there something that explains it (maybe Bosendorfer had a bigger sales network a few decades back and everyone was part of it) or have other folks run into the same thing while piano shopping?

twocats

Continuing the conversation from another thread (starting here-ish).

Gombessa twocats The local Steinway dealer is run by the former manager of the Bösendorfer dealer.

As an interesting aside, I've been to three separate piano dealers locally where the person talking to me said they used to be the #1 sales rep for Bosendorfer in the US, and they all had pictures/plaques to show to prove it. As part of their pitch they all told me why they moved on from selling Bosendorfer to X/Y/Z brand, and how they felt that Bosendorfer just couldn't compete because of A/B/C.

No hate, nothing against them or even criticism--learly it didn't really matter to me or affect my purchase decision-- it was just odd and memorable to me how this could be such a common theme. Is there something that explains it (maybe Bosendorfer had a bigger sales network a few decades back and everyone was part of it) or have other folks run into the same thing while piano shopping?

Steinway now has showrooms owned by the company that only sell Steinway/Boston/Essex pianos. I suspect it's easy to go to the competing dealer and offer their manager a nice raise to come run the showroom and be in a position to say "I used to sell Bösendorfers and Steinways are better".

Edit: can't figure out nested quotes but the initial quote at the top is mine and the rest is Gombessa's response 🙂

twocats

Gombessa continuing the conversation here so that we don't derail the thread 🙂

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