Struggling with Sheet Music

rogerch

I recorded myself sight reading for "Sight Reading Progress Thread" today. I played several pieces and let the camera run the whole time. I thought the best part of the video was me struggling to prepare for page turns for one of the pieces:

It's time for me to get a tablet for sheet music!

Pallas

rogerch I watched the whole video. 🤣 I vote tablet, if you're taking votes.

navindra

rogerch Oh wow. Awesome video. I didn't realize it took so much deliberate preparation, but in retrospect, it's obvious.

I always enjoyed the skill involved with the page turns on this channel:

There's some really nice timing involved. Seems she switched to a tablet now though.

JohnCW I much prefer paper, I can easily scribble fingerings, chord names, etc on it. Just photocopy each page from the book and lay them side by side across the music stand.

Same here! I think I get too much screen time already, and a tablet on my piano just doesn't work for me.

Adagiette

rogerch Too funny! I would have done all that and then knocked the whole business on the floor anyway! 😆

PianoMonk

rogerch Yeah, that's pretty funny. I could never attempt a tune that required that much messing around with page turning. So, my hat's off to you for your dedication and tenacity.

Rubens

Hahaha, this reminds me of an infamous piece by John Cage.

rogerch

Rubens Hahaha, this reminds me of an infamous piece by John Cage.

Or possibly PDQ Bach!

rogerch

Pallas I vote tablet, if you're taking votes.

I vote tablet too! I've been working on it. I have an iPad and I've been playing around with newzik and researching alternatives. I'm getting near the end of "The Giant Book of Standards" for sight reading and I'm determined that my next book is going to be a PDF on my iPad not a printed book. Soon!

JohnCW

I much prefer paper, I can easily scribble fingerings, chord names, etc on it. Just photocopy each page from the book and lay them side by side across the music stand.

And I do have a tablet, but just use it for other things, e.g. online masterclasses etc.

rogerch

JohnCW Just photocopy each page from the book and lay them side by side across the music stand.

Yeah that's what I do when I'm learning a piece. It doesn't seem right for sight reading though.

I'm hoping that with Apple Pencil annotating the score will be as easy as paper. I don't have the pencil yet though so we will see...

Pallas

rogerch I absolutely love my iPad and Apple pencil, and find annotating very easy. I like making changes and I was sick of eraser crumbs, and I love making bookmarks and playlists! But I also love paper books, so argh I have both. 😄

Sgisela

rogerch I find it much easier/cleaner with the Apple Pencil than with paper. It’s easy to make different layers and to make the layers disappear when you don’t need them. But I do get using paper books for sight reading!

twocats

rogerch I'm hoping that with Apple Pencil annotating the score will be as easy as paper.

It's very easy!! I love it because I'm constantly marking up the score or erasing old markings and making new ones.

Note that the original Apple Pencil isn't as good. I was annoyed enough that I actually bought a (used) newer iPad that was compatible with an Apple Pencil 2 just for sheet music, and it works great! Sometimes if the side of my hand is resting on the page it'll interfere because it recognizes it as skin but I just put a cloth between it.

FrankCox

I have a Samsung tablet and use Mobilesheets with a Samsung pencil (that came with the tablet).

It's easy to make notes on the music and erase or change them as needed.

One thing that I don't have is a page turning pedal. I don't perform so taking a few seconds to turn the page isn't an important issue.

thepianoplayer416

I still use paper. Anything in books with more than 2 pages I’d photocopy the other pages and put all the pages side by side.

When traveling I’d scan pages to a computer and use a travel keyboard to avoid carrying a stack of books.

WieWaldi

With paper, you don't need to turn pages at all.

All you need is a wall, sticky tape and a flexible neck.

Rubens

WieWaldi
All you need now is to add some newspaper clippings about conspiracies and you're all set. Just kidding! This is actually brilliant.

Player1

For learning a piece I discovered the joy of photocopies. If I photocopy the sheets in the book I can make all the marks on them that I want, organize them any way that I want, bend/staple/fold/mutilate them all that I want, and finally toss them in the trash when I'm done.

I would think that a tablet would be better for performing but I don't have one yet so I can't really say that with any confidence.

WieWaldi

Recently I've been in a concert (1_st row) and could see very good how the pros did it. Always 2 strings on one music stand and one of both was turning the page. The other string player continued playing, while the page turner had a small pause.
Interestingly, not all violins did turn the page at the same time. I had the impression the sheet music was printed with some offset for each music rest. Another thing, what I couldn't remember, was that one was turning a page back for a repeat. Maybe they did the layout in a way that a repeating section never required a page turn. Okay, this might be a waste of paper, but it optimizes for a minimum amount of turns.

Player1 I would think that a tablet would be better for performing but I don't have one yet so I can't really say that with any confidence.

This is a good point, and I am also not sure. The problem is that you only have one single page and unless you are using a huge tablet like the Galaxy Tab S9 Ultra, your pages are always smaller than a printed letter/A4 page. This and the fact you have only a single page makes you turn the pages a lot. IMO, especially the single page setup is the biggest weakness. There must be a reason why a company makes dedicated tablets (2 sided) for musicians: PadForMusician. I don't know if the software allows it, but you could turn only 1 page forward so you could read page1+2, then 2+3, 3+4, and so forth. This might be the best option for repeating sections that span over 2 pages.

For tablets, another option would be to layout the sheet music not page-wise, but section wise; meaning a start of a repeat section is the start of a "page" as well. In this case, the number of turn-backs is minimized, too. Or not using the repeat sign at all, but copy the notes over and over and only turn forward. But those options require the sheet music in digital form, not just as a photocopy of printed pages where you can't modify the layout at all.
To be fair, used in open air with some wind around, a tablet beats paper, hands down.

Bottom line, the problem with turning the page is as old as the piano itself:

Sgisela

Player1 For learning a piece I discovered the joy of photocopies. If I photocopy the sheets in the book I can make all the marks on them that I want, organize them any way that I want, bend/staple/fold/mutilate them all that I want, and finally toss them in the trash when I'm done.

The other nice thing about the tablet vs photocopies is that if you ever decide you want to come back to the music (months/years later) you have your notes saved (as regards fingering, dynamics, tricky passages, anything else you marked up). I like having that!

Player1

WieWaldi

I've just begun turning pages (see this video: https://rumble.com/v4wui8c-practice-is-hard-sometimes.html ) and I realized early on that you have to memorize the part where you turn the page both before and after the page turn and that the page turn can only happen when you have a hand available.

This doesn't mean that you automatically turn the page at the end of the page. In the video above, the page turn happens at the end of the first line on the next page! I had to play that first line until I got to a point where I had a free hand and enough time. Other pieces might require that you turn the page before you get to the end of the page. You'll have to memorize the "overlap" because in some cases you'll have to play without being able to see the line you're playing.

Repeats on a tablet could be complicated or not. For instance, Da Capo and Coda repeats might require multiple page turns in both directions so the solution would be to add those pages to the tablet sequence. Simple line or phrase repeats are easy in comparison. Either memorize them or turn a page back then forward again.

I also learned that turning pages when using loose sheets requires that you have placement control. You can't overlap the pages after you move them. This means you're doing a larger/longer movement, at speed, under absolute control. It's not just grab and move out of the way.

All of it was fun to learn.

candela

WieWaldi Interestingly, not all violins did turn the page at the same time. I had the impression the sheet music was printed with some offset for each music rest. Another thing, what I couldn't remember, was that one was turning a page back for a repeat. Maybe they did the layout in a way that a repeating section never required a page turn. Okay, this might be a waste of paper, but it optimizes for a minimum amount of turns.

Yes, orchestral music is normally laid out in such a way that page turns as much as possible fall during rests. Compared to solo pieces for piano, an individual player in an orchestra has a lot of shorter or longer rests as the music moves between or within sections, so this is often achievable. Occasionally it might lead to a very short page with only a few lines of music on it. The written music is also much more compact than piano music (not to mention the conductor's full score). Normally only the single part is included and that only requires a single staff. Rests across several measures also save a lot of space. Unless there is a da capo, it's rarely necessary to go back beyond a single spread of sheet music.

Killomiter

There is another option ... by using a tab for the music and projecting through to a wide screen monitor above the piano. The control to page turn rests with the tab but the screen can cope with side by side pages.

candela

Killomiter I don't own a tablet but for digital music I have my laptop with forScore connected to a regular 24" screen (16:9 aspect ratio, I think) behind the digital piano. It would be more difficult to fit the screen on an upright 🤪 I can get up to three pages next to each other on it and normally be able to still read the size. There are of course much wider screens on the market but I use what I had anyway. The computer can receive bluetooth commands from pedals for page turns for longer pieces, just like a tablet. Free-hand annotations don't look as neat as they would using a touch screen and pen, though. But you still have the advantage over paper of keeping annotations in different layers that can be individually turned on or off. I use layers especially for short-time practice notes such as dividing the piece into tiny segments for practicing, things I might use sticky notes for on paper music.
But most of the time I just use paper.

Pallas

My tablet can show two pages if I turn it landscape, and aside from face-gesture page turning, and foot pedal turning, there's also a way to deal with repeats so you don't have to page backwards, and a setting for automated page turning, but I'm very far from needing any of that and might never use it. But I'm very attached to my layers of notes, features like the ability to easily make changes to fingering by using "white out" and stamped finger numbers, all kinds of fun stuff. But again, I love my paper books too, and I can see wanting to have all the pages in front of you so no page turning is necessary. That makes sense too. I think the best method is the one you'll use, to be honest. Whatever makes it easier.

Pallas

candela I can get up to three pages next to each other on it and normally be able to still read the size.

OOOOO! I love it!

Pallas

Player1 All of it was fun to learn.

I think this is the MOST important part!