I visited the Steingraeber Factory. Here's my Experience!

HeartKeys

Reposting from my PW Forum post. Let me know what questions you may have, now that several months have transpired, and some of my opinions have evolved since then! 🙂

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Some recall in an earlier post this year, I planned to go to Germany and decided to go to Bayreuth to visit Steingraeber. Well here I am!

I went on a tour today inside the factory, museum, and selection center. Below are my thoughts:

Context: I am not a piano tech, nor professional pianist. I am an audiophile and play piano for fun as well. When it comes to technical understanding of the instrument I’m pretty green.
On this day: there were no workers present as it was the day after Germany Labor Day aka Workers Day. So the main manager walked me on a tour in English since my German is horrendous. And yes, the official tour is in German. We toured for about 45 minutes.
Facilities: the factory itself is very low-key, felt like a true blue collar (I mean this term endearingly) vibe, where the artisans truly go all in on their craft. From outside it’s fairly nondescript.
The manager showed me the whole process albeit no workers present. The benefit though was that it was quiet, less dusty and paint smell etc smile
They did talk about Steinway, Fazioli, Bosendorfer, and how their ways of building differ. They were not downplaying any other maker but moreso sharing some distinctions, things like how they heat their plates; the hammer differences, other stuff. I’m glad they didn’t disparage other makers. Some interesting stuff below:
Hammers are diamond in shape instead of pear.
The Sordino pedal truly sounded really smooth.
The Mozart rail is a switch now rather than the knee pedal.
Logo: they now use their Steingraeber logo now instead of just writing “Steingraeber & Sohne” so now it has their logo, then Steingraeber, then since 1852. Their shared some reasons why. That said while I miss the elongated name on the side, it looks more sleek now.
Lid: yes it’s truly lightweight way lighter than our pianos.
They had a prototype ergonomic piano, similar to the Maene-Viñoly curved piano. Except on an upright. It was a prototype.
They also had the narrow keyboard available. It was fun to play.
Their A170 packed a HUGE punch. I thought it performed like a 200cm piano.
Their other pianos all sounded what I thought it would sound like which is fantastic. The treble has a distinction from the bass and mid. It was warm and bright. I think the tone, to me anyway, sounded more similar to a C.Bechstein and Fazioli, and latest CFX, than it did a Bluthner, Bosendorfer, or Steinway. FROM THE ONES IVE PLAYED (before we get into a comparison smile )
Museum: the Liszt piano definitely is rebuilt and sounds okay, doesn’t sound like an antique piano. They also had a cool piano that plays keys backwards or something like that.

I’m going back there to play and test their pianos in more depth in the selection center tomorrow. Meanwhile these were my first reactions.

Let me know what questions you may have while this experience is still fresh in my head.

All in all, I am a lucky man to have experienced this.

cheeeeee

HeartKeys That sounds like an amazing experience. Thanks for sharing. I have never seen a Steingraeber in person. Please do share how you think about the playing experience and how it’s compared with other brands. I’m planning on visiting the Bösendorfer factory next month.

navindra

HeartKeys Logo: they now use their Steingraeber logo now instead of just writing “Steingraeber & Sohne” so now it has their logo, then Steingraeber, then since 1852. Their shared some reasons why. That said while I miss the elongated name on the side, it looks more sleek now.

My understanding is that the daughter is taking over of the business and so Sohne is outdated in this context. Is this the same person?:

The Fazioli logo on the other hand seems timeless... in fact it looks like a modern design, but I guess they are a very young company in comparison.

The Sordino pedal truly sounded really smooth.

This is my favorite thing that I have on my upright but not my grand.

Their A170 packed a HUGE punch. I thought it performed like a 200cm piano.

How much did it cost over there? 🙂

Thanks a lot for sharing! It must have been quite an experience.

HeartKeys

cheeeeee Please do share how you think about the playing experience and how it’s compared with other brands. I’m planning on visiting the Bösendorfer factory next month.

Exciting to go to Bösendorfer factory for sure! I almost decided to go to Vienna as well, but it was too far, so maybe next time.

As far as comparison with other brands, I'll use Yamaha, Bechstein and Bösendorfer as comparators, because I played many many of them. Totally subjective, and non-scientific, so I won't be able to explain further 🙂

Yamaha - The action is perfect for me. And the tone is more straightforward, which enables me to focus on the music, rather than the tone. Never get tired of the sound because of that. So the sound itself won't make you cry from joy, but you will be able to enjoy it for hours on end and still be satisfied. The (particular) Yamaha CFX in London (next-gen CFX) Flagship Yamaha store, was one of my best experiences on any piano before-- ever. I'm very confident about Yamaha's quality, and service, given their massive network globally. Compared to Steingraeber, I find the Yamaha a joy to play free-spirited. The Yamahas seem to be more forgiving to me (particularly the action) than the Steingraebers. That is both a good and bad thing 🙂

Bechstein - I particularly enjoyed their B212's, I played a few of them. They embodied the reputation of "being both warm and bright at the same time" without the "muddy and sharp" sounds. Sublime sound. The D282 concert grand I played was played at concerts, so I can't compare it. Same for the C234, which was in the recital hall. The A192 was quite amazing and warm as well. In terms of the tone, I was very impressed. Compared to Steingraeber, I'm more impressed by Bechstein's warm/bright combination. Meanwhile, I'm more impressed by Steingraeber's projection capabilities. It packed a massive, and I mean massive punch, including the A170 and the Upright 130 and 138. And the Steingraeber action held an edge for me.

Bösendorfer - to me, the most "omgosh, this sounds like an alto singing, and crying out their pains and joys of a recent tragedy/ triumph." Almost (not all) each time I play a Bösendorfer, I am (mostly in a good way) distracted by its tone. There's been many posts in PW about Bösendorfer sounding... unique. Most folks I've heard like or love that. Others do not like or love that. Either way, it's unique. Compared to Steingraeber, the Bösendorfer tones I've played sound more unique (that's not necessarily a compliment or criticism), than the Steingraebers I played. The Steingraebers to me sound, similar to what some folks described before. Like bringing out the brilliance of Bechstein, some Steinway, and Yamaha sounds, with some Bosendorefer and Fazioli low range. I suppose you can say it's unique in that it carries so many qualities you'll hear in other makes (which the other makers I can't really describe in that way).

The most unique thing, that I'm absolutely in love with to this day, is Steingraebers' D232 and E272 usage of the Sordino pedal and Mozart Rail. They are the real deal. As someone who plays more uncouth than many of you, I could nonetheless enjoy the heck out of those. I ended up playing things like, Chopin (some random passages, in a poor manner), Debussy, Enya, Coldplay, Inception, Chariots of Fire, Erik Satie, Adagio for Strings, myriad other songs, pieces.

The factory had a 2015 D232 that had both those systems, and was worn in, and serviced very well. The tone was amazing, and I played it for nearly an hour. It truly was a game changer for me.

Being very open here: if money were no object, and they cost exactly the same, I'd rather have the D232 and E272, instead of the Bosendorfer/Yamaha/Bechstein equivalents (230VC, 280VC, CF6, CFX, C234, D282) due to the Sordino Pedal and Mozart Rail. But those cute, and real-deal systems cost a LOT. Meanwhile, I'm not aware of many other makers having it.

Let me know if my stream of consciousness helps. I'm kind of babbling my thoughts randomly.

HeartKeys

navindra My understanding is that the daughter is taking over of the business and so Sohne is outdated in this context. Is this the same person?

Yep, same person. Fanny Schmidt-Steingraeber. Very cordial, professional, passionate about assuming ownership of the business. And the Steingraeber business had been operated by daughter(s) for quite some time already, not just Fanny according their site.

navindra How much did it cost over there?

I don't recall exactly, I just recall it being quite expensive! 🙂

navindra

HeartKeys Nice!

Not bad for the new logo, I like that the image is symmetric... I'm not sure about the choice of including location/date in the logo... I would have gone for something simple and timeless, but probably they had to balance it out.

How did your second visit go?

HeartKeys

navindra How did your second visit go?

It went well. and so did the third and fourth 🙂 we ended up going there every day. new observations included that the 138K upright was sublime in terms of its texture, brilliance, and projection. and the SFM magnet action felt better than many grand actions I've played, so I was dumbfounded by how nice that was. We resisted the temptation to buy it though, given we already have two acoustics.

My wife and I also had a nice evening, where it was a quiet, intimate setting in the museum, playing their historical instruments. There were lots of them, and we felt like we were in a wholly different era. Especially since their palace is overall non-restored, non-renovated.

Lastly, the more we met with the Steingraeber family, the more we appreciated their down-to-earth, mom and pop vibe. To say they were very "human" is an understatement. They approached their business with a lot of humility.

When we think about premium piano makers today, very few are still family-owned, and not purchased by a corporation or private equity. I think if you want to be part of the Steingraeber legacy, and feel like your piano is part of a bona fide family, and one that is "built in a home" - Steingraeber is it. There's that emotional attachment one has with their product, and their ecosystem as a whole.

Gombessa

Amazing account, I really enjoyed reading your experience here, ty for sharing! Doing a grand tour through Europe visiting different makers is definitely on my bucket list.

HeartKeys Meanwhile, I'm more impressed by Steingraeber's projection capabilities. It packed a massive, and I mean massive punch, including the A170 and the Upright 130 and 138.

I've been told by knowledgeable sources that there is a real secret sauce that makes this the case. 😉

cheeeeee

HeartKeys Thank you so much for the detailed description. I’m glad to be able to experience these great pianos vicariously through your account. I have not played any of those pianos. On my newly acquired digital piano, there are Yamaha CFX and Bösendorfer sounds and I love them both. It’s interesting that even on the digital piano, the Yamaha sound is more generic, whereas the Bösendorfer is definitely unique to the extent that it gets your attention while playing. The two special features of Steingraeber sound fascinating. Are they only used in larger concert grants?

Bellyman

I'm not much of a traveler anymore and it is unlikely I'll be outside of the US going forward. But it's interesting to read about. Thank you for sharing your experience!

As a former piano tech, I'm sure I'd have enjoyed some of the jigs and tools and such.

Bellyman

HeartKeys Lastly, the more we met with the Steingraeber family, the more we appreciated their down-to-earth, mom and pop vibe. To say they were very "human" is an understatement.

Reminds me of something from many years ago. I was working at a Steinway dealership in Pennsylvania. They were having a big event of some kind and Henry Steinway was there!

I got to spend a whole 15 or 20 seconds with him. I remember of asking him if he had any hobbies when he wasn't doing engagements like this. He went into a short list of things like "collecting Steinway memorabilia" but I think I had a bit of an unexpected reply. I said, "Oh, OK, I had thought you looked the type to go hunting or fishing." And he caught on to that big time. He started opening up a little and managed to get out, "No, but I have a little place in upstate NY where we have a small orchard and I love to prune and take care of..." at which time someone interrupted him and it was back to Steinway pianos. (sigh) I'd really have been much more interested in the orchard but we never did get to continue the conversation. Oh well...

Sometimes people we meet in expected places share way more with us than we ever realize.

HeartKeys

cheeeeee The two special features of Steingraeber sound fascinating. Are they only used in larger concert grants?

if i recall correctly, these features are standard for the concert (E-272) and semi-concert (D-232) grands, and optional add-ons for the mid-size, smaller-size grands.

Gombessa

HeartKeys One thing I've heard, and I'm definitely not sure about this, is that these novel features sometimes aren't valued/preferred on performance instruments. Not because they don't work, but oftentimes for concerts and competitions, pianists are looking for a completely known quantity. Given a choice between a concert grand with 3 standard pedals, and one with 4 pedals, knobs/knee switches, oftentimes they will choose the more "standard" instrument.

Not sure if this is true or not, but it was mentioned a few times before and I have to wonder if this is one of the reasons why we don't see more widespread adoption of these novel/innovative features.

HeartKeys

I think the video below from PianoCraft provides a high-quality explanation and demonstration of Steingraeber's Mozart Rail and Sordino Pedal. Enjoy.

HeartKeys

Gombessa for me personally, if it’s a one-time thing to play, then its value isn’t huge to me.

If I’m owning one in my house, then that’s where it’d be a “deal winner” for me. The option to play in the evening to create an intimate tone for example. And having lots of fun with it. 🙂

Seeker

Gombessa Given a choice between a concert grand with 3 standard pedals, and one with 4 pedals, knobs/knee switches, oftentimes they will choose the more "standard" instrument.
I think you are correct, but it goes further than that. At least for me, even changing from one piano brand to another requires some period of time with the concert instrument during which time I determine what changes I must make in the "idealized sound picture" which worked so well on a Steinway, or a Kawai, or whatever. This is also true, albeit to a lesser extent, when playing on the same brand and model but a different instrument in a different acoustic environment. It's just more work when switching brands/sizes, etc.
Adding an uncommon feature, e.g., a 4th pedal, some other fancy gizmo, would, imo, make things VERY tricky and would require more practice time. As for competitions, there is also the risk that a judge will react poorly to an unfamiliar sound of a well known piece.

Slightly off topic, but relevant - Moritz Rosenthal, in a recently translated paper, wrote about how Liszt was, in many ways, less "at home" with use of the modern pedal than the younger generation just coming along, and he (Rosenthal), expected them to be better at it. Makes for interesting thinking as we play Liszt on our modern pianos (the ones with just 3 pedals). The Consolation in Db is a good example. How would Liszt have written it/played it, if he'd had a sostenuto pedal?

twocats

I was in Bayreuth with my sister (who also plays piano) in 2008 but we didn't know about Steingraeber back then. I wish we could have visited the factory!

pseudonym58

As an aside, here's a link to a video that demonstrates a piano by the same manufacturer that includes a soundboard built from carbon fiber. It has some very unusual characteristics, among them an almost "limitless" sustain! So the firm certainly is interested in experimentation.

Grandman

Very interesting thread. During my search, I came across a Steingraeber D232 with the Mozart rail and Sordino, which I enjoyed quite a bit. In the end, I went in a different direction due to concern in finding an experienced tech trained and knowledgeable in maintaining the Steingraeber with its unique features (in addition to mozart and sordino, they have unique hammerhead shapes), and having access to parts for mozart, sordino, etc., as a difficult task in the US. At the time, it appeared to me that although many uprights have a similar function as the Sordino with the mute rail, I sensed from the experience of upright owners I talked to that I would rarely use this feature, which wasn't worth the added substantial cost to me. But, these were among my favorite pianos in terms of touch and tone and I applaud the company for its willingness to innovate where others have remained traditional.

navindra

So there's both a Steingraeber A170 and a A168 scale design out there?

I'm guessing the A170 is a newer design.

Ithaca

navindra Yes; the A170 is the newer designation. I don't know if there's actually any substantive difference between the two, though - it may be something as small as lip/no-lip on the lid. I think I heard that the A170 projects a bit more, so there's probably a small internal change, but 🤷🏻‍♀️?